I was in that post and fighted with him, I enojoy how he avoid all I ask, and how he invent new physics fails to esplain all we show, or how completly ignore real world physics talking about epic controlable slides and drifts with almost every car when I only can find spinning cars that stuff. I enjoy seeing how stubborn is this man only defending with his awesome knowledge not needing any data to contrast because universal truth is obviously truth. Sorry to use that "tone", but It's hilarious, I showed a real video that shows exact the same behaviour he said in old thread that was completly unrealistic in rF2.
Hi, for me definitely still all exaggerated! I'm sure it's been said. But I do not think that is a good way to have different simulations to show that there is so extreme. I make a lot physics and I know it's just a setting. I think it would be better all slightly reduced grip on the rubberized track strikes me as the difference between the track on Friday and Monday after constantly riding .. when the track is rubberised creates the impression of absolute difference. Clearly there should be substantial but I think that is what is very strong, but I can survive. Rather scares me how to write the car in slow speed is severely understeering, I have to agree. To a certain extent it is regulated overwrite the setup but even so .. It is absurd how the car behaves, I have a little I go throttle low speed and the car turns easily as when I give more throttle and go into a spin .. There is so much he wants to improve the reconfigured. The behavior of a car is essential. The worst effect is as rain, it looks comically like a car in smoke.
You mean this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CcC_miIDtE I don't know how near or far from perfection is rF2 pyshics at low speeds, I tested lots of things but not deeply that point. But paying attention to real footages, is not too absurd to see cars spinnings at lowest speeds if you don't drive It well or have very low screen latency to react at time as you were there. PS: THANKS TO KEIKEI! I tested to run at 178fps in a 60Hz screen with no vsyinc, prerendered frame = 0... and that stuff, and is so awesome how reacts now the car. I was fast, I consider myself a fast driver, but now I drive much more sure.
Notice the point you actually get into slide with all 4 wheels and not just the back wheels you lose it ? Demonstrating exactly what I am talking about. Again you don't understand what is being talked about every video you post misses the point and the fact you cannot see what is going on in real world videos and some other games shows that you probably wont get it regardless of what is said or shown.
Have you got eyes? I ask... because I'm worried about your health. There is something called convergence, and It, if you are blinded, can cause the visual effect of that the front right tire (in this case) is not aligned, but you have to see to the other tire dude, I'm feeling stupid explaining this. I said I'm not a pro drifter and I do too many steering movements, but the front wheels are driving the whole car and in any moment is a 4 wheel slide, not the case of understeer moments, obvious... PS: What will be the next? I'm sure you are trolling me or something. And is not about "you don't understand what I'm talking about", is about, SHOW what you are talking about, because all videos you shown can be simulated, I'm waiting for that slides at grip limit like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg-Row3oAxg but with happy, epic, and controlled ending in some way impossible to do in rF2
If it makes you feel better just be confident that you are right and ignore what I have said , it doesn't really matter. People will still enjoy this game and other games regardless of what is said and some people will feel there is an issue and others wont regardless of what is presented. I can garentee even with real cars people will argue over how they handle and what they can and cannot do and what the do or don't do better. the conversation is fairly boring now anyway , noone has really introduced any new points or aspects that could be of interest to discuss and you have started to resort to insulting me which i don't mind but its not exactly constructive. If you know a server and are on-line now we should just do some racing it would be fun I'm board of typing. Should look for a lime rock one and see what's possible
I'm no professional driver, but I'm not bad with a bit of physics either. Surely if a car is 'sliding on all 4 wheels' then the only possible freedom of motion is in the axis parallel to the driven wheels? This would make a 'controlled' drift entirely impossible. In fact what is happening is momentary slipping of the front wheels followed by a correction allowing the front wheels to grip and turn again - thus allowing the car to change direction (and hence axis of the driven wheels) without the need for the driven wheels to properly bite. Is this correct? I can't see how a sustained 360 degree drift is possible with only one degree of freedom to ones motion.
Well the reality is ridiculously complex and i cannot even pretend to understand it to even a basic level but As far as I understand it if in motion tires are all-ways slipping to some extent , even when they are apparently gripped ( from the drivers perspective ) And its even more complex than that in that different parts of each tire are also in different states of grip , with patches of less grip or near no grip with tiny vibrations and all sorts of weird things and interactions going on. So sure if all tires had literally 0 grip then you would have no control. But when a car is on the limit there is still a % of usable grip ( I'm sure someone can find a graph) and evan if the car front and back wheels are notable sliding laterally the driver still has controllability over the angle of the car. You could argue that the video Esteve Rueda posted on the skid Circle shows a 4 wheel slide to some extent as the front tires will be scrubbing / wanting to under stear to some degree. But its not a demonstration of what I and others have been talking about interms of usable controllability of the cars angle on the limit.
Thanks... somebody thinking with head. Great explanation, and can be perfectly applied to the real Skip Barber video as the same way than in rF2. And jameswesty, a shame you left showing nothing of what I asked you, but please , watch the video again... the wheels are aligned with circle tangent, or in other words, aligned to the car's direction, in other words... driving my car. If you don't want to see It, right, but It doesn't means It's not happening. You asked me for It, I did It.
Again you are not doing what I and others have been talking about all along I have told you this many times and explained it but you keep posting the same thing over and over and then proclaim you have proved your point when all you have done is demonstrate you don't understand the point. I asked if rather than being offensive to me , if you wanted to race or do some driving on-line , it seems you would rather just be argumentative.
And I'm letting you to try to explain that secret point in a way I understand, or others can (not only 2 + hiohaa), not only weird arguments impossible to replicate in real world, something to see, to contrast, something "impossible to do in rF2" as you always said before. I'm frustrated with you guy, It's not about rF2, the last thing about I was sliding 4 wheels is HILARIOUS, or to ignore evidences. Can't you admite that in that video I caught you? too hard for you... I am stubborn with my point, but you do not get out of "you do not get It". When somebody do not understand something I try to do something easy and understandable, something that can be compared, do you get me? at least if It is demonstrable, obvious. PS: I'm using this tone (may be offensive, I'm not oculting I'm bothered), because you are offensive to other people when you deliberately ignore certain things (in this case me, in other cases questioning that Tim's can controll Historics drifts, and we everyone can). Or you question topics that have no turning back because is visible, as white is white and black is black, and one guy with head said It. Is like saying that the stones fall up when I'm showing falling down.
You're welcome! Very nice to hear it works for you too. If you have some money to spend for hardware I recommend getting 120 Hz low lag monitor - driving will get even better! There are few 120 Hz monitors capable of doing so called "2D LightBoost" without any ghosting which will give even better experience than regular 120 Hz but it's bit of a mess tweaking drivers etc and still not 100% sure it will work on every system. Hopefully monitor and graphic adapter makers would develope this area in the future. About the issue. You all should remember ISI's tire model isn't finished yet (I remember something about contact patch not 100% modeled yet) so things may still change. Too bad I don't have experience on real counterparts of rF2's cars and TBH fail to see those issues Spinelli and Jameswesty are talking about. To me rF2 is very close to perfect racing simulation and feel blessed of having it. Wish I had more time driving it. If something maybe tires lose grip too fast due overheating when driving hard but I've absolutely no knowledge/data to back it up. This opinion is based on pure feeling so probably worth nothing. PS. Very nice handling on those videos! Amazed by the fact you were able to do controlled slide for the full circle on that skidpad. I know how hard it is, especially with Skippy, and will try to do the same some day.
Other people have linked videos and explained as clear as possible and from that you don't get it , I honestly don't believe I can put it any better than what has been already said. Thats why I said if it makes you feel better just dismiss what I am saying and just get on with racing and driving , hence why I asked if you wanted to do some driving on-line. I stopped posting on the forum because I'd rather spend my free time driving than trying to explain to people what I believe to be wrong with aspects of RF1 and RF2 , I also explaind in another post that RF2 RF1 NKP and i racing are all still pritty good despite there flaws or perceived flaws by different users of them.
I can post a real video of a F18 and then to say that in Flight sim, BoeingXXX phyisics are weird because that plane can not do the same as F18. The unique video your part posted is a Palm Jaguar in wet, video with things imposible to do in rF2, and I did It even more under my controll with a 370z (a shame not to have a Palm Jaguar in rF2), and you the Skip Barber, explaining in both some things I replicated clearly in rF2 (maybe not perfect, but even better than all other sims I tried, NKP, iRacing, rF1, and LfS). Even I shown a GT1 onboard, behaving clearly the same way rF2 in the limits, F1s... Is because of that I don't get the point. You talk about slides, grip, more and more... all kind of things that happens in rF2 with the cars you shown, in equivalent cars in rF2. Is because of that I ask other example, a GT1, F1, or that stuff, cars that really suffers of "bad controll" and fast grip drops when limit is reached. I really searched videos with other cars wich fits with your explanations about general car motion (you generalize the behaviour of two cars to all, and that's I said lots of times is wrong), and I ask you for one of such categories, really the cars that some people thinks has some extreme weird behaviour when I think ISI's is going the right way. PS: and for me if nothing extraordinary happens, is finished too. Since the last weird grip thread ISI has been doing well their job in the same direction. I hope they will improve lots of things, but I'm sure they know what they are doing and rF2 will never NKP (AKA, 250km/h F1 epic drift, hey, I loved that sim, really). If you sometime will show here all I asked, GREAT! but I know you are not going to give me even a part of reason, and I maybe will not give you nothing too, as in the old thread when even some people shown actual data and lots of stuff, some few were thinking NKP was the heaven compared the rF2 hell of bugged physics .
Having had the drive home from work to consider this 'problem', I am now of the view that a concise and clear explanation of the alleged 'problem' is not forthcoming because it isn't possible to concisely and clearly explain the 'problem' without violating real-world physics. westy, can you just clarify on whether or not you're asserting that it is possible to do a controlled 180 degree drift whilst all four wheels have no traction?
I'm a "project of engineer" (studying), and I don't like to use as argument, but even in the most basic physics simulator, that's completly impossible, 100% confirmed. Even in a wooden box sim, with physics rules, front wheels must withstand the force exerted by the rear wheels to drive the whole car to the desired location (driven by front wheels). If this fails It's not a simulator, we wouldn't be able to do nothing.
Exactly; this is exactly my point. If that is his assertion, then it is physically impossible. If that is not his assertion, then I ask that he define the problem clearly without using vague descriptions such as 'real drivers just feel what i'm talking about' or other such nonsense.
For those of you that don't know, you can see the tyre contact patch info by changing TGM Display="0" to 1 in Player.plr file. Quite handy for tweaking setups a little. You can tell you when wheels are leaving the ground and when camber angles are way off etc . Shows temperature colours too. Watch your hotspots go round and round A neutral setup opens up worlds of fun
Damn KeiKei, please don't remind me of the 2D LightBoost hack. I still have a hard-on for how bloody amazing it looks . Can't wait to get it in 3 screens need some money first though lol
