The thing is , I knew that and I fallowed the thread, did all the stuff to keep the FPS high. But recently I bought a new 7970 and cranked the graphics up to see what it looks like. It was quite pretty so I left it. What a mistake! lol
There is some degree of truth to the at-the-limit cruelness in rF2 but I think it has to do with the way the tire surface heats up. The behavior I see on the tire monitor once already warm slicks begin to slide or spin they heat up so quick that any constant slip (brief is ok) in a modern car mod can become unrecoverable. e.g. I get this on the last turn (horseshoe) at Sepang in the FR35. Once that slide starts the outside rear goes nuclear and not much left to do at that point. Not saying this is wrong but just sharing what I see. I also notice extreme surface temps if you spin the tires in the grass *trying to get back on track quickly. That I imagine ain't right. That all said, I get a lot more out of rF2 than nKPro and I do a fair amount of RL track days. The updated FR35 hops and bounces around like a king sized go-cart if you don't drive it smoothly. Amazing mod and can't wait to run it around Silverstone.
Yep well , NKP certainly has its own issues , the roads are so flat the cars are far to passive And then in terms of how each car in NKP lines up to its specific real world car the points at witch it loses grip at a basic level and how the tires ware heat up and cool down is probably way off. FVA you can also do some strange things by hooking the car on curbs and you still cannot do a low speed sustained drift in NKP.
NK Pro has more physics issues than just that, plus bumps or lack of, isn't even a physics/vehicle dynamics issue, but rather a track modelling issue. FVA is just a joke and shouldn't even be mentioned lol. There is nothing sim-like in it's physics model. Kunos obviously dumbed the hell out of that car's physics/handling engine. The directness of Netkar Pro's FFB still gives FVA a good steering feel if that makes any sense, and that is what brainwashes ppl into thinking that game is so sim lol. Ppl think its a sim just because of Netkar Pro's natural and weighty feeling (which i by the way cant stand) ffb model, regardless of how good, bad, dumbed down, etc the actual physics modeling of the car are. The fact that you mention FVA, and hold it in high regard, when it is a complete dumbed down, fun, "sim-ish" feeling game "AKA GT5, FORZA, Raceroom, Pcars etc) is odd considering you seem to be pretty knowedgeable...must be the nice ffb of the NK Pro engine (regardless of actual physics) that is brainwashing you (like it does to others). HOWEVER, Yes in some ways, RFactor 2 is too difficult when it comes to man-handling cars, real hard driving with bad technique, warm-up lap driving shenanigans, and some situations when you go too over the limit and should still be able to still save the car (albeit in a quick reacting and borderline dramatic way, rather than in Netkar Pro's physics flawed overly easy and forgiving way), ALSO I'll add 2 more points that I think RFactor still can definitely improve on, 1. Many times the way the rear steps out, it feels (and looks) more like your car is turning into a corner, as if you turned the wheel hard, rather than the back-end swinging out but with the car's general motion still moving forward. Basically, it is too much like you sharply turned in with some rear wheel slip at the same time, rather than the rear of the car swinging out. 2A. Sometimes it seems as if the initial saving of the rear-end slide requires too little lock to save the car ("initital" meaning the first part where you counter steer and save the slide, NOT the 2nd part where you return the steering to centre). It seems in real videos that there is more steering lock or physical tyre turning angle lock (or both) needed to save slides, where in RF you seem to need much less to get to the "rear-end saved, time to start returning wheel to centre" point. This leads me to my next point. 2B. Many times it seems as if the second part of the counter-steer (not the initial saving of the slide steer, but the 2nd phase when you are returning to centre) feels like it has to be done too fast, or else you end up over-correcting (taking too long to return the steering to centre) and snap-spinning in the other direction. 3 QUICK NOTES: 1. RFactor 2 definitely has improved on all these points over RF1 (and RF1 based games), and these issues have been improved, and hopefully keep improving (which I am 99% sure they will ) even more from build to build. 2. Out of the 3 points I mentioned, I believe point 2A has made the most progress. 3. Although I made those 3 points above and agree with some (actually most) of the things that Hioaa, Westy and others say, I still believe that RFactor 2 is BY FAR the best sim in terms of the actual way you drive, how to achieve lap times, just overall race car handling physics/vehicle dynamics, it has those flaw points, and obviously others, but every single sim does. I would choose RFactor 2 EASILY over any sim if I was training for real life race, AND THAT IS PART OF THE REASON I PREFER IT, INCASE ONE DAY I GET MY REAL LIFE RACING CAREER STARTED UP AGAIN. This is proof that I AM NOT a fanboy, but just want the most/best OVERALL (not just saving powerslide situations) physics. FINAL OVERALL NOTE: You spend 97% of a lap NOT doing those things that Hioaa, Westy, me, etc are complaining about. So for 1 minute and 37 seconds, out of a 1 minute and 40 second lap, I believe that RFactor 2 EASILY is the best, most accurate race-car driving simulation game, EASILY (based on my decent amount of real life racing, and of course years and years of watching it like the most of us, but I'm telling you guys, watching onboards only teaches us the big moments, it doesn't show most of the tiny corrections and slips/slides that these cars are CONSTANTLY doing, and that you are constantly having to manage by ways of throttle, brake and steering).
Am I the only one that finds the modern F3s to be really good for demonstrating control through drifts? You can get the car at a 45 degree angle and correct it, maintain it, or really do anything you want just by playing with the throttle and shifting the weight of the car. It's loads of fun to slide around corners at ridiculous angles.
@Spinelli , its not about hard or easy , its about the cars having fundamental holes in the physics at the limit when pushing for top lap-times and balancing the car at the limit. So long as you stay under the limmit in RF2 your fine , but if you are a driver that actually likes to drive at and on the limit the physics become a dice roll which is exactly why you see the patented RF steering wheel wriggle when drivers are pushing and you see it most clearly with cars that are light fast and twitchy Go-carts , F1-cars. It is mostly hidden with cars like the skippy or 1960s cars as prity much every slide you get into with them is a continuation slide from throwing the car into a corner. You see rediculouse RF non controllable death slides all the time in FSONE and the same thing happens in RF2 Its weird that you take issue with the fundamental aspects that most people recognise NKP for being best at and then dismiss it all being down to its brainwashing FFB. RF2 is probably the best sim so long as you drive under the limmit and that was the case with RF1. But as soon as you get to the crux of knocking out top laps and actually balancing the car at the limit and doing more advance driving and car control the simulation is lacking. If I was going to use a sim to practise for a real car with before going on a track I would probably pick RF2 with any of the more developed cars , but only because I know I could then go out on track and then drive on the limit properly. I would simply be using RF2 to learn the track and brake points and a general idea of grip at given temps and for given tire types I don't doubt that ISI have the best empirical model of grip under the limit assuming the correct data is put into the car model. If I want to experience the actual joy/essence of what it is to push the threshold of a car whilst also achieving top lap-times I would pick NKP. I dont mean in some abstact sense I mean in the sense that the cars in NKP actually drive at the limit as real cars do even if there profile as a whole is less acuret. Having said that If I wanted to practise to drive a lotus Elise I would chose AC based on the TD regardless of if I was going to drive it in real life or not. For those that wanted me to make a video , I did a quick skippy race with crazy AI , max aggression + max difficulty. AI have actually improved allot since I last raced them but they are still mental ! I have also shoved in a clip of me sliding the marussia in a way that looks as if its controlled but in reality its a total hostage slide. My driving in the race is obviously far from perfect but its for those of you that were demanding a video of me driving the skip.
I do agree with you there, but that seems to be depending on car, as i have played some community cars where it was just as i would expect it in reality, but i cant say anything as i do not have the experience of race-driving, only a bit of wild country road driving
Why did you crash like that into me - couldn't you see yellow flags!?! About driving. It's hard to see what you mean from that video because, as you said, it's far from perfect. With that driving of not being constantly near the limit (but constantly too much under/over it) I'm sorry but can't basically say anything of the issue. However it seems you're catching slides just fine.
LOL I know I wasn't really paying attention to the flags , the AI allso tends to crash and lose it in strange places so I just ignore the flags ( maybe its a symptom of having AI aggression set to full ?). Starting at the back of the grid and trying to get to the is actually quite enjoyable and other than certain types of corners the AI drives quite well. However even on max aggression they seem to either give you loads of spice and be timid or drive into you like Johnny Cecotto. For people that are not that competitive and wont put 4+ hours into a given track and just want a general immersive driving exsperance I think RF2 is really good. If ISI can sort out the UI , mod system , optimise things more so it runs better on weaker pcs and maybe put in some sort of driving school then I'd certainly recommend it to people starting out sim racing. I know RF1 certainly made me a better driver , along with i racing. Allot of the early cars in i racing had weird on the limit physics forcing the driver to be overly tentative and focus on being smooth and progressive with steering , brakes and accelerator.
I think it would actually be nice for ISI to release an official test track track with skid pad oval/speed track , skid track , kick pad. That would be awesome in general not only for moders to test cars , but for people to learn basic car control and see where the RF2 limmit is for each car is in perfect situations. Lime Rock has a skid pad in back of the racing school building.
jameswesty, I have already posted videos of real GTs drivers correcting when losing grip in the same way we do in rF2, high downforce openwheels losing grip and correcting as we can do in rF2. At corner exits, some snap corrections in mid turns... not big slides as you says they can do in real world, I can't find that slides in such categories, and I repeat this in every post because you was avoiding It. And finally you've come up with a Formula Abarth being overdriven, when hiohaa has recognised before that such moves can be done in rF2 if we overdrive almost every car (and I proved It that is possible to do that with GTR some time ago, in fast lap conditions and overdriving, both). But the best thing is that you has posted a video of a guy wuth Skip Barber drifting in a dirt-stained asphalt saying we can not control in rFactor 2 slides like that (you afirmated that talking about Pablo Lopez driving bad an Skip Barber). Well, sir jameswesty, here I bring you a video of a Skip Barber being driven on a non dirt-stained track with surely more grip that in video video shown, I do all kinds of slides in different kind of turns properly controlled. You video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM&feature=youtu.be&t=22m38s My video (second half part with 180 turns controlling the car even better than the video you posted ): The first half, fast corners and some of 90 ... on Top Gear test track. Then, if you pay attention, show how it is entirely possible to control an slidding Skip Barver in fast and broad curves, including 180º in palm beach, modulating the throttle and controlling steering in every moment. PS: again, I want to see a real GT1 in fast lap conditions, controlling skids as you are asking to be possible to do in rF2, or even F1s doing It... because I searched again to try to compare with rF2, and only I found is snap corrections at exits, not any controled slide in conditions you take as universal truth. Edit: every car can be really grippy driving It in the good way, but If you reach grip limit... can be controlled really similiar as you would do in real life, jameswesty, you are saying is far from realistic how's a car loses grip or go out of grip limits, but I can show even more videos showing we can and It's pretty realistic until now, I showed how similar is to drive near or over limits to real life with GTR (in the past), 370z, and Skip Barber (comparing to their equivalent in reality, in same conditions), I can do a footage of how a FR3.5 slides, comparing with rF2 one, even a Clio if you want more war
Serious question for you James, what makes you so certain that the problem lies with rFactor 2 physics and not your lack of finesse?
No he hasn't you just made that up what people including myself have said is that you can throw the mass of the car into a corner and achieve a largely uncontrollable slide that way ( though visually it looks like a normal drift) , and that is what most people are mistaking for controllable drifts. You can see me doing those kind of slides in the video I uploaded. Again You are making things up where did I say Pablo was driving bad ? what I said was he is geting into snap slides and then just collecting it again this is totally different from having proper control of the cars angle and grip during a slide , what infact is happening is the car is losing grip and then being tugged back in rather then being progressively controlled. Every slide you do in that video is almost enterly from throwing the mass of the car into the corner rather than pivoting the car and balancing it on throttle and steering / having precise control over its angle. I posted a video of me driving the car in exactly the same way throwing the mass of the car to start a slide and then pulling it back in or balancing it a bit on the throttle but the point is that's a very limited type of drifting. The skippy and the 60s cars do allow you to position the car a bit with the gass and wheel but only whilst the momentum established from the initial throw in has not fallen off. Granted in some ways that's how you will have to drift a real car that's lacking in power but with a real car you could keep it going indifintly and also link drifts. A real car also has a finer degree of control once in one of these slides. I don't think you have really understood what I and others were talking Spinelli made some good points above , though I still disagree with aspects of what he has said. He is at least talking and arguing for and against the specific aspects I and others are talking about. Everyone has sent videos back and fourth and the discussion has hardly progressed some people seem to be arguing the same thing others are not , in the end I'm sure RF2 will gradually improve over time its certainly allot better than when it first came out. Out of interest If you have time go on lime rock and find the circle and make a video of you holding the car in a slide for more than one rotation
¿? some slide yes, but not all, see at 1:30, and the controlled drift of the guy you shown begins with a little "mass throw" as me in most of drifts Please don't put as example the video you shown, because in that video that guys do exact de same thing I do in some of my slides of Palm Bech, and most of cases when he lose the rear during turns, he spins, I have not seen any complete rotation drifting in you video, but tomorrow I will show you is possible with Skip Barber to maintain a slide losting rear grip with no "mass throw" Some of lots of control lost with that car in the same way than rF2 if you lose the car in the wrong way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM&feature=youtu.be&t=19m26s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM&feature=youtu.be&t=19m50s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM&feature=youtu.be&t=20m00s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM&feature=youtu.be&t=22m11s PD: this is funny, still waiting to see all you say in real life.
Esteve, Fantastic driving and car control mate , trouble is no matter how much you try and convince Jameswesty, he will allways be right and you wrong.
I posted a video of me driving with no real issues , and you have other people that race in FSR and the real world that have pointed out the same problems with RF2 as I have.
No real issues, apart from the fact you are not quite exactly balancing on the limit, rather like Kalle said, sitting under and then going over the edge. Still, looks nice mate. Bit hard for me to drive a Skip Barber car here in NZ, but the way you are sliding and catching those slides looks just like all the real footage I've seen of the Skippy cars/All the footage of people pushing and provoking reactions from the car or driving as quick as they can. I've seen many posted before, where people are comfortably staying under the limit all the way through their laps, both ends never step out, and the car looks super stuck down. That circle track vid that Esteve posted, real good stuff. I like how you label it as a problem with rF2. I think that sorta sums up the whole situation in this thread. If it doesn't confine to the way NKP or AC does their thing, it is completely wrong. Same for the other side too. Regardless of the back and forth, you can be sure ISI will not change their approaches. Send them your feedback, of course, but at this point you would surely be better off just playing the sims and games that you personally enjoy, and stop trying to force us to realise the "problems" with rF2. Much bigger problems currently anyhow.
