What the .... happen's with KI???

I will try some more tracks and experiment further for sure.

We`ll see how it goes.

 

The AI do seem to be able to brake a lot harder and much deeper into the corners than the player can...

 

After a short research on WWW i found a real laptime sheet of a renault megan trophy race in Estoril :

They Drive a 1:41.9 in Race...

 

yes tjc, i noticed it to on too. alot Engine blown on full ai race.i don't find it a problem thou. it one less car for me to catch up too

not try meganes at portugual,clios i getting 1.57's . 1:38 in f3.5 and the AI are set at 85%, also agree with tjc the ai seem to have a shorter distance on braking then the real players, if i hard brake where the ai braked i would probably end up in the nearest armaco, or worst the back end of the car would do a completed 360% on hard braking.
also notice a bug.... in the pitstops,

1) why in pitstops you press AI control the ai will drive out
2) the pit timer doesn't hold the ai in the pit,it will drive out even if the timer is still going on repairs.

so if you take control of the car again on track, you will be rubbe rbanded back to pits, crashing rf2

 

I'd say your settings could be the problem. Set the AI to a relative speed to yours and you'll enjoy it a lot more and find it more challenging. Overtaking 4,5 cars at a time is great arcade fun but in know way improves your skill.

 

I'm having fun with new AI settings.

See here --> http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/1637-rfactor-2-beta-video-s?p=165972&viewfull=1#post165972

And here --> http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/1637-rfactor-2-beta-video-s?p=165976&viewfull=1#post165976

Full disclosure, I never qualify and always start from the back because I like to work my way through the field. Thus, I cannot comment on vast differences between qualy and race times. I will also say that I still believe there is still much to do with AI and also that AI should be very high priority for rf2 and when I say priority I don't just mean that it is important. I mean it should truly be prioritized over other things if needed, especially if will affect modding content.

 

FWIW - I haven't seen any crashing at LRP or Sebring in the C6R running these new settings. I usually do a 30 min race, rolling start, with no more than 10 AI. If I set the AI to match my laps (i.e. turn the percentage down a bit with these settings enabled) I get a much better experience than before, especially at Sebring. Starting from the back makes it almost impossible to finish at the front. I have to work hard to pass two maybe three cars in a 30 min sprint race.

 

There's an 'AI Brake_Power Usage' setting in the player file which might help with that.

It worked in rF1, but I haven't tried it yet in rF2.

 

i have a look , not had time to check out aiw files.atm.

 

AI Limiter = 0 shouldn't cause more AI crashes, actually it was supposed to be the opposite since the cars become more sparse on the track. Indeed, in rF1 the lower the AI limiter, the lessen amount crashes I used to have.

But, if you're reporting the contrary to rF2, maybe the new AI code uses this number in a different way. Maybe you want to adjust these data in the PLR file:

AI Brake_Power Usage="1.00000"
AI Brake_Grip Usage="0.98000"

I would try mess this numbers a bit and see if the AIs keeps ramming each other. I didn't remember whether I raise or lowered this numbers, but they were very effective in order to achieve a decent AI racing without an havoc each corner. In PLR file is worth to raise the AI collision detection bar to the maximum value:

AI to AI Collision Rate="40"

Even the AI keeps touching one each other, this collision rate detection will minimize the effects, reducing artificially the cascade effects from little accidents here and there.

But, in addition: from my past experience with ISI AI tweaking, I've finally realized the most important stuff in order to have a decent AI car behavior was in HDV vehicle file (!).

This lines:

AIAimSpeedsPerWP=(30.0, 54.0, 68.0, 82.0, 100.0, 120.0, 150.0, 185.0) // Speeds at which to look ahead X waypoints
AITorqueStab=(1.0, 1.0, 1.0) // Torque adjustment to keep AI stable

... has a definitive impact on how mental the AIs will be. Tweaking this numbers can determine either the AIs could drive a corner or not. I don't even know if this lines are still present in cars HDV files (I'm not a car modder) but change it will causes mismatches everywhere. So, it must be considered when the author is creating his own car preferably.

Finally, for the track creators, I'd bag for more waypoints. There's a tool for decrease waypoints distance in Dev mode and it would avoid a number of problems when offline racing. Some tracks have much distant WPs one from the next another, which lefts few room to calculate the AI decisions properly, causing AI to AI collisions very often. If you have more WPs, the AI will be able to take "more decisions" about his driving in the same room.

------------------------

Edit: about AI yet, it's quite horrible the AI behavior during wet races. They never knows when to stop to change their tyres for a most suitable set given the weather conditions. And, when they decide to change, there's a war for territory in the pits, resulting in flying rocket cars and havoc.

I couldn't have a regular AI wet racing so far. They're either much slower or much faster than me. AND, the performance is really bad: there's no stutter anymore, but something different: the FPS start to "cycle" and the game runs in slow motion and normal motion succeeding one by one. Undriveable despite the bad wet effects.

 

More good info here Satangoss.

I don`t know what was (is) causing the AI to crash out so much but I never noticed them crashing so much before I altered the smoothness and limiter but I think, during my experiments I may have altered the following line too:

AI Mistakes="0.00000" // a range of (intentional) AI mistakes from 0.0 (none) to 1.0 (sometimes). Anything above 1.0 multiplies the frequency

Trying to get them to make a mistake sometimes as before I changed anything they seemed to be able to catch almost any slide or knock they got, which is not very realistic. I`ve now made sure the above value is at 0.00000... strange thing is they still seem to be making more mistakes than they were before. They don`t seem to ram eachother either, they would just throw themselves into the nearest barrier. Quite litteraly be going along just fine and then turn violently left or right and bang!



Anyway, I`ll try out your suggestions and see how things go.

 

http://sre.simracing.es/hotlaps/hl2...5iY4m1OED9pqawKEr0cDBtoi5W67oaAJp5UT+zLS8+gE=

This is the hotlap list from my simracing league, we raced with meganes at portugal some time ago, with B.198.
1:36.0 as the fastest time, so, yes, 1.36 is totally real. If u cant do better dont think the game isnt real, think you are slow.

 

Hello TJC, in fact AI Mistakes = "0.00000" may be used very carefully, I wouldn't go far than 0.05 (5%). I remember I tried something around 0.2 or something in rF1 and then I got a demolition derby.

I'd try some official ISI tracks with your new settings. What could be happening is when you select Ai Smooth lines = 3, one of the three patches (fastest, inside or outside) might be messed up in the *.AIW file (track specific). So, when the AI tries to run outside or inside path to try an overtake, maybe he gets any displaced waypoint and lose the control by calculating a crazy direction.

This is the rFactor offline racing saga: you have to put too many things together: your PLR file needs to be tweaked and for some mods the HDV file as well! But, still: even doing that, if the track *.AIW is not well done, you'll still have bad offline racing.

Back to the Ai mistakes line, perhaps it was the source of your AI crashing. It's nice to have some AIs making some mistakes here and there, it improves the realism, but this factor is too much sensitive. The main problem is: the infront AI runner make a mistake and his follower hits him, causing the cascade effect. It's a good try when you racing in a modern circuits, with large runnof areas (the AI errors are calculated based in the width of corridors, so if there's more runoff area, it's most probable some AI had an off-track at that turn - at least this is what my experience has shown). In other hand, a AI mistakes > 0.05 may cause serious issues in a road track, constrained by walls.

Try to tweak the brakes AI parameters (*.PLR) in some ISI track, let the Ai mistakes below 0.05 and probably you'll find a good balance eventually.

I used to perform a AI calibration in rF1. I see the line Autocalibration is still there, so maybe is still possible to run this procedure. I remember even in excellent tracks, with refined AIW files, there was possible to improve the AI lines to get 2 or more seconds per car and the AI driving lines become smoother, reducing crashes occurrence. I'll look if it's still possible for rF2 afterwards.

 

the attrition rate also effected the AI drop outs! if the attrition rates are default=30%/100 that means that some will drop out of the race,that in the gdb file.

Attrition = 30 : if it was 0 then none would fall out!

 

More excellent information once again Satangoss.

I`ll try increasing the AI Mistakes by a very small amount to experiment. Maybe I altered it by too much last time I tried...

As you say, it adds that touch of realism when the AI make a mistake or two as it makes them seem more "human" but I think it is very sensitive atm and could maybe do with being revised a bit so it can be altered and give better results.

I`ll do a bit more experimenting and hopefully get it to a good place.

 

Good info here too Banger. I`ll keep this in mind...

Cheers.

 

I found that there has been a change of another line in the .PLR files from rF1 to rF2.
In rF1 there is the line:

AI Realism="0.37931"

and in rF2 this line is now:

AI Aggression="0.25385"

Does anyone know if these lines make a difference ?

I haven't tried tweaking them yet, still working through the above suggestions after an offline race with the 60's F1s at Monaco where they all retired/crashed inside 2 laps !

 

Keep this invaluable info from Satangoss in mind hdj:

I had altered this line by too much and also had a complete demolition derby.

 

Cheers tjc,

Going to try it at 0.02 and see how it goes.

 

Funny... before this whole discussion about the line-smoothing and AI-limiting parameters, the ONLY change I had ever made to AI settings, as a beginner, was to turn the AI Mistakes to "0.5000". Yeah. Not .05, but .5. And here's the thing--- I never had a demolition derby. I guess I don't race against the AI enough to see how many it would take out over time... anyway, point is, with it turned up that high, the only mistake I ever saw was the sudden-turn thing.

I turned the mistakes on with the thinking that: computers are perfect... humans are not. Whether the AI line is great or flawed, what makes a human beatable, generally, is the variation in their performance. If AI will all get it exactly "right" every single lap, then every mistake YOU make just increases the gap.

Now, what I was hoping for was a slight variation in line, or braking points, as a realistic "mistake" for the AI to make... but the only mistakes I ever saw were that inexplicable turn-to-the-outside... like they have a sudden bout of dementia--- or suicidal tendencies. They never seem to just go too wide, or brake way late, or turn too early... It's like they're all Jacky Ickx; but they drop lit cigarettes in their groin on almost every lap.

I do think it would be nice if there were settings that would give us a more believable range of AI behavior--- and I think we're sneaking up on it here. I think the next episode should be a consideration of those settings that control AI improvements, or attempts to improve, their own setup and line.

AI related discussion seems to sometimes dwell on how "easy" or "hard" to beat they are... but this seems to me much more productive than that--- since we can turn these things up and down, once we have the right arrangement to humanize their behavior, then we should already be able to accommodate the differences in what will feel "right" and challenging to each of us as a driver.