Racing against AI ​​is still far from perfect

Discussion in 'Wish Lists' started by DriverN1, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. DriverN1

    DriverN1 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    of course I agree that now AI is much better than initial version or AI in rFactor1. But it is still not good... AI does well when it is on the back of my car, but when AI is on the left or right side and tries to overtake me, AI often cease to see my car and getting stuck into me and knock me off the track. It is necessary to make improvements on AI cars detecting player's car relative motion along the line perpendicular to his current driving line. You have to do something with it, because it is impossible to enjoy racing "wheel to wheel" against AI. Sometimes it turns out that this race is very interesting, but sometimes AI ​​make foolish mistake and it leads to the end of my race. This is very annoying.
    Also it is necessary to consider the fact that some vehicles (such as Skip Barber 2000) are very unstable and the slightest push from the AI ​​cars leads to loss of grip and my car is found retired. Therefore, I propose to make some option that will make it possible to increase the stability of the player's car during a collision with AI. For example, if the AI ​​will hit my car, my car will not fly on the wall but will remain on the track. Maybe it will not be as realistic, but for me it will be better than ruining race because of a collision with a stupid AI...
     
  2. DriverN1

    DriverN1 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    there are a couple of examples of serious errors by AI



     
  3. DriverN1

    DriverN1 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  4. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,854
    Likes Received:
    2,234
    1 - Thats your opinion, I think its very good!
    2 - Depends on the AIW file of the track, if its poor the AI will turn in no matter what so agree they need better coding to make them more aware of the Players car. Having said that these accidents happen in Real Life and Online so I would'nt want them completley ruled out, the AI still need to make mistakes around the Players car.
    3 - Matter of opinion and which Mods/Tracks combo you're using. I've had some fantastic wheel to wheel battles with the AI in various mods/tracks and believe it or not I had a few in rF1 aswell!!
    4 - Again happens in real life/online its knowing where to "stop" from making the AI completley "safe" if you see what I mean.
    5 - Nope I'm totally against this as this would affect the physics of the players car and take away the realism, this is where AI needs to be hardcoded to be different in mods, there needs to be AI code for Open Wheel, AI code for Touring Cars, AI Code for Banger Racing etc etc. I proposed this idea last year in a Wish List thread of my own, sort of making AI independant in relevant Mods/Series.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2013
  5. DriverN1

    DriverN1 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. Thats your opinion, I think its still NOT very good!
    2. I hate these "accidents"! Maybe it's good for you to drive in 50-laps race against AI and retire on 47 lap after "accident" (read "stupid AI mistake"), but for me it's terrible and I never need this kind of "accidents"!!! I would like to pass the whole distance and finish the race without moronic "accidents" caused by AI!!
    3. Read carefully what I wrote!!! If you "totally against" then no problem!!! Just NO USE this option! I propose that such an option to choose from! if anyone wants to have a stupid "accidents" with AI ​​and finish a long race on the penultimate lap not reaching the finish line because of this "accident", then I suggest not to use this option!!! But for me, this option would be a great solution for many problems with AI​​! I would be happy to enjoy racing against AI ​​without your "accidents"!
    4. he-he ;) your idea would require a ton of time! It will take years to get things done, and code AI ​​for each mod and each track! :D if you want to wait a lot of time then wait! But I propose a very simple and instant solution.
     
  6. DriverN1

    DriverN1 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    actually "invulnerability" is also completely unrealistic option in the game! But it is present in the game and the player has the right to turn it on when he wants it! I only suggest to do something like it in order to avoid stupid "accidents." I think it is fully justified!
     
  7. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,854
    Likes Received:
    2,234

    ....and I suppose Humans never make stupid mistakes on lap 47 of a 50 lap race then no? you seemed to of completey missed my point, accidents happen and the perfect AI that never drive into the players car will be rubbish as thats not life like at all is it?!?!

    Re-coding the players car physics might also take a lot of time, ever think of that? Highly unlikely that will ever happen though, plenty more priorities in ISIs ever growing list of things to implement and add to the game!

    Again it could be due to the AIW of the track you're racing on, thats not the AIs fault, thats the track makers. That video of the Megane where he cuts into you, what tracks that on? find out...contact the maker, if its an ISI track then post about it in the relevant section not in Wish List as thats a "bug" technically.
     
  8. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    3,038
    Likes Received:
    44
    Looks like Orchard Lake. And I tend to agree with MarcG.
     
  9. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    31
    I watched the first video and had a little chuckle. Looks like something that could very well happen in a real race. I think you can tweak the AI to make zero mistakes can't you?
     
  10. DriverN1

    DriverN1 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    you seemed to of completely missed my point. if I wanted I could race online with Humans. But what interests me is comfortable racing against AI without stupid accidents that destroy the race and all of my time is wasted. I repeat to you - if you like to spend an hour a virtual race in order to fly off the track after an accident with a stupid AI, then you can enjoy it. But I would like to minimize these stupid accidents or even better - to remove them completely (if at all possible).
    LOL! Do you think that the creation of option "invulnerability" taken a long time? :) Of course I do not offer to change the physics of the player's car! I only propose to make an option that would have made it possible to increase the stability of the player's car only during clashes with AI! I guess that it is easy to do and it will take a little time.
    I think you know little about the behavior of the AI. These videos demonstrate mistakes of AI, which are caused by poor detection of a moving player's car along the left or right side from AI's driving line. I'm almost sure AIW of tracks has almost no effect on it. The facts that shown in this video are sometimes happening on different tracks, including tracks released by ISI.
     
  11. DriverN1

    DriverN1 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    it's impossible... I reduced aggression to zero, but that sort of accidents still happened
     
  12. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,854
    Likes Received:
    2,234
    Well it's obvious our views of ai are immensely different, good luck with your wishes, I for one hope they don't come true!
     
  13. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    31

    I thought that there were values in the .ini file that you can change regarding A.I. I could be wrong but you should have a look.
     
  14. DriverN1

    DriverN1 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    are you completely .....? If you are happy, then you should stop to poke your nose into this topic...
    I'm not suggesting anything wrong! If I ask to make the AI ​​better is it a bad idea?!! :mad:
    And what about the option that would allow to increase the stability of the player's car during clashes with AI, then repeat once again if anyone is still unclear - I suggest this option will be TO CHOOSE A PLAYER!! just as well as invulnerability! if someone does not like it could turn it off and enjoy the accidents with AI even in every race.

    I hope now it's finally clear. And your assaults on me finally finished :mad:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2013
  15. DriverN1

    DriverN1 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    LOL! at first learn rules and how to behave on the track and only then leave your comments :D
    I did not change my racing line and go straight. This fault is fully AI because it moved into me and knocked me off the track.
    P.S. "Read books"
     
  16. domhnall

    domhnall Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    1
    The AI in rf2 is probably the best I've seen for some time. I'm really impressed with their ability to go wheel to wheel against the player. I've done a good few offline races in the skippy. I've occasionally been rammed by ai but it doesn't happen very often. When it does, I feel it's often because I haven't taken a tight line into the corner, thus inviting the ai driver to make a move. I've seen a big variation in ai aggression in different mods. The maserati trofeo mod for instance has very aggressive ai, whereas something like the F2 (modern) mod is much more tame. Don't know if this is talent file related.

    Probably one the more frustrating things I find is sometimes (on a long straight) an ai driver will sit in the slipstream of the car in front, and instead of moving out to make the pass, the let off the throttle and stay behind all the way the down the straight.

    Overall a big improvement form RF1, I hope there will be further improvements before the gold release :)
     
  17. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,310
    Likes Received:
    16
    The only things that irritate me about the AI are 1) the AI is either way too fast or way too slow. 2) If you set the .PLR file for any AI mistakes, they always make the same dumb mistake- they will be on a straight and just steer off into the armco for no reason. When I set it to AI mistakes, I mean I want them to be late to a braking point occasionally and get a little wide, or carry too much speed through the mid corner and exit wide- not yank the wheel full right and slam into the barrier!
     
  18. Butch Nackley

    Butch Nackley Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    12
    Good points Guy. I too see the same thing happening when I increase the AI mistake value. It is too sensitive now, I think. A small increase in the value can have nearly the whole AI field DNF in minutes. I think this actually worked better in rF1 than in the present rF2.

    But overall, I think the AI is better in rF2 than it was in rF1. No perfect, but better. And it seems some work may have been done to them in recent builds. They don't seem so slow in the opening laps and they seem to run more consistant through corners. Lately I have been running them at 95% and I'll be mid pack with my best lap time. Sometimes back of pack. I always used to think the AI was a bit of a push over, but lately they seem to be doing much better. If I am going to stand any chance of keeping them in sight, I better not make any big mistake, or I will be left behind.

    So, while there is always room for improvement, I think they are better than they ever have been. I can enjoy an offline race with the AI and in most cases, not worry too much about them ruining my race. I sometimes get cut off by them and sometimes they don't appear to know I am two wide with them. That would be my main complaint at present. Any you guys are seeing some of the same thing, so I know it ain't just me. While some tweaks need to be made, they are getting better and better and offline racing can be exciting and fun with less frustration then I have had with the AI in the past.
     
  19. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,854
    Likes Received:
    2,234

    christ on a bike, look I do want better AI but not anything you're suggesting, what you want for a players car to be "invunerable" to the AI simply is not a case of adding an option to turn it on or off. It would take a lot of coding as it directly affects the physics of the car, this much I know.
    The AI in RF2 does need some work but as it is now it is perfectly raceable...wheel to wheel...if you get the right settings and mod/track combination. AGAIN the problems you're facing could be the AIW of the track, I had to edit and redo many AIWs in rF1 because the originals were so poor so I know what I'm talking about....its not always the AI at fault its sometimes the track makers.

    AI has been hashed over in threads here since the Beta began and MikeZ (who I believe is the AI guru at ISI) has done a great job of updating the AI since the start, example recently I noticed the AI waiting by the side of the track after a spin to let the cars through instead of just driving right in front of everyone, that I had'nt noticed before and it was bloody cool!
     
  20. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,854
    Likes Received:
    2,234
    I've never changed the Mistake setting in RF2 and I get them making the odd mistakes to a decent enough level, simple spins and stuff. I noticed in rF1 changing this value also led to them just slowing down for a lap which was odd and doing as you said about just driving off at random!

    Again its another area that maybe ISI will look into once this game reaches whatever vision of Gold they have, I have and am compiling my own list of AI improvements so once we get to that stage I'll post it here for MikeZ/ISI to peruse.
     

Share This Page