IMO its a pain. I prefered the rf1 way. In rf2 you still have to make sure you have all the right tracks before you join anyway so the only difference is having to DL all these vmods (all be it they are small files). I thought that ISI were going to make it easier for new guys to join in the fun but it seems that they are going the other way. This is not just MO but the same for all my team, the result is we just cant be bothered with the hassle anymore. Are ISI not planning to implement a way to DL all the tracks from the server as well or this will cause huge lag server side?
Before rFactor I had pretty much 0 modding experience as I raced Toca Race Driver / Colin Mcrae Rally Series but rFactor was a doddle to mod. rFactor You went to rFactor Central, downloaded latest cars and mods which 99% of the time came in a .rar package. The other 1% came in an .exe installer. To install an rFactor car you simply opened up the .rar folder and copied it onto your desktop with a simple drag and drop. The .exe you told it to install to your desktop so you could see the file structure. After that you opened up your rFactor folder and again simply dragged the folders into the rFactor directory and dropped them. Mod is now installed rFactor 2 Download component file or mod file. Place in packages folder. Open rF2, manage mods and click install. More user friendly but all we have gone from is a normal .rar file into a component / mod file so whats different about them? Absolutely nothing! The file structure in the 2 packaging systems is the same, its just made slightly more user friendly because they can now click install / uninstall of a mod.. rFactor Servers So you want to start a server, well all you have to do is install the mod, the tracks you want in rotation and create a serer config. Want to change rotation of tracks? Simply upload new tracks and alter server dedicated config. How rFactor 2 Servers Should Work Well you have to install the mod, the tracks, make a vmod then create a server config. Want to change rotation of tracks? Well first you must upload the new tracks, then alter the server rotation, then update your vmod to contain the new rotation of 5/6 tracks. rFactor 2 Servers Reality Upload the mod you want and ALL tracks, make a vmod containing ALL the tracks, create server config rotating ALL tracks. So now we have a vmod needing possbily 30 tracks. New track comes out? Oh we'll simply upload that track, update the vmod so we now have 31 tracks so you need all 31 tracks installed. How I think rFactor 2 should work The components and mod packaging is a great idea and obviously works well. Its like a .rar file but more user friendly way to install / uninstall mods and tracks. vMods have to go. Server admins aren't using them as possibly intended and it has ruined rFactor 2's online racing no doubt about it. Even in iRacing forums people want to give this a go but can't be bothered with all the hassle of the vmods. If vmods go how will we setup servers? Well simply the rFactor 1 way. You install a mod and it has no track filters. Now you can run Clio Cup on any track you want and aren't just restricted to Mills. Well how do you know if you get a mismatch or don't have a track installed? If the game does a check against the Track Names used in the Dedicated Server Config against a users installed Tracks it should show up any missing tracks. Mistakes ISI has made. Tracks came with some mods. The tracks for the game should of been released separately as component files just like any modder made track would be. Mods should of had no track filtering and this was asked for from the start. You asked us to be patient and try out the new system. We've tried it out and its not user friendly and needs to go. Anything that doesn't effect the performance of the game should be modifiable. Track textures / Cameras / Sounds all should be changeable. In rFactor you could change cars sounds, cars and track cameras, car and track textures even if they were locked in MAS files. T his isn't possible no more and has become a step backwards in what a user can modify. Look at Hudson Kerr and SLN textures made for standard ISI tracks. Much improved but now in rFactor 2 you'd have to create a new track causing mismatches. Its not all bad though The extra features we now have are great. Real roads, weather, animated marshals etc are great additions and big steps forward. The tyre modelling feels great and the cars are enjoyable to drive, especially the Skip Barber. Tyres finally feel like they are made of deformable rubber not just solid blocks.
Alright, I started with a reply to this thread, but as I wrote on, it turned out to be in fact a wish list item, so I thought it to be better suited there.
I like racing online but I rarely do it with this game because of the pain and mess with the mods. More trouble compared to any sim i can think of. Imo usability is a completely neglected aspect here. For common scenarios it should be click&play. At least the convention of not releasing content in mods is a small step forward.
Not everyone has 100's of GB on their HD to store every track and every version of it. This torrent will eventually be terabytes and useless.
Very, very, very few mods that I ever saw came with an installer. You sure about that? I didn't work for ISI when rF1 was released, and you're not mentioning that you could install 1 mod, and it would break every other mod, or that you often had to open the rF1 directory, and drop files into the right folders... I don't know if I ever installed a mod with an installer...
One surprise then will be rFactor Drift Revolution by ISI was released as an .exe installer After spending a few minutes going through my rFactor folder I found these mods with .exe installers.. RSDG Meganes, F1 79, VLM Tracks, Enduracers Series, BMW E21's, BMW M1 Procar, Cart Factor (Redline), iDT Champcar, Clio Cup FR Racers, DTM LMT, ETCC, Fabcar, Formula BMW, NAGT, Porsche Carrera Cup (GMT), V8 Supercars, WTCC BMW E90. So some of the biggest and longest played mods were released using .exe installers so it can't of been that hard..? I never installed a mod that broke every other mod so I must of been lucky. In over the 5 years I played rFactor I only ever had 1 install of the game that never became corrupted. You never had to drop everything in the right folders at all and its where people went wrong. All the mods came with proper file structures because if not they simply didn't work from testing. All you had to do was open rFactor Folder, and drag and drop the top folders of the mod across (usually GameData and an rFm file). It then asked you if you wanted to merge the file directory's and you clicked yes If you downloaded a track sometimes it didn't come with the top folders. For example Brands Hatch might of just come with the track folder called Brands Hatch instead of being GameData then Locations then Brands Hatch. So you just went into your rFactor Locations folder, dragged and dropped Brands Hatch in. I agree from that perspective its much, much easier having everything in the packages folder to install / uninstall. I like the new packaging system as it keeps it all in 1 nice and easy format for modders and users.
But you never mentioned a non-exe mod install in your comparison. That was my point really. You were very fair tho.
I'm not sure I follow you there I always installed the mod same way. If it was .exe I installed it to Desktop first to make sure it had extracted right (in case it decided to put an rFactor folder within rFactor), then I dragged and dropped GameData, rFm etc into rFactor Directory. If it was .rar / .zip I dragged it out onto Desktop which can be done by either dragging it from WinRar or using Commands > Extract and telling it to extract to desktop, then drag and drop GameData etc into rFactor Directory.
All your other points were great, but I have to disagree with the modifiability of Cameras. I know for a fact, that that was exploited to cheat online in rF1. I won´t go into details though, as I don´t want to encourage anyone, but it defeated the whole point of having "forced cockpit view" enabled on a server. Cheers, Marcus
I can see why Marcus but not everybody wants to drive in cockpit. I myself prefer bonnet / hood camera because I only run with 1 screen and when in car it feels very cramped and not able to see. Now I'd be happy if people made good cameras for the bonnet / hood but they don't. I remember Madcowies RC Buggy mod was able to lock to a specific scenery camera rather than on car so maybe such as cockpit camera they could lock down so its not changeable? The meganes when they first came out had a central camera but then they swapped it and moved it to the left.. Why I haven't got a clue but before I could of changed this, now I can't and its horrible to drive. One of the guys I used to race regularly used Swingman Cam! God knows how but he liked it and was very fast.. What happens if a mod comes out such as proper DTM, its very popular and you want to run Cockpit camera but its sat very low and you can hardly see.. You'll want to change it then won't you
I´d rather not turn this into a cockpit or not discussion, I have made pretty elaborate posts on that matter to the Force cockpit view unfair thread. My point was, that changing a camera, so you can workaround the rules set on a server, is an exploit and thus rightfully detected as such with the new structure. Until someone comes up with another idea, that actually works, I´ll hail the current structure for all it´s worth. If for whatever reason you don´t like the cameras, then the mod is "broken" and should be fixed at the source.
The vMods, in there current form, as many have noticed are difficult to understand. Ideally, it would be nice if the system could download all the components in the vMod and install them over the network. That is the vision since I don't have the time either go find everyone's content. I want to see a server, get its content and go. vMods are the current form we have stable enough to release. We are working on the other features and are getting closer with each iteration. 146 is the current iteration. Full mod reconciliation is the end goal. I don't see how we get there with out a meta-file (like a torrent) as a manifest of what else needs to downloaded.
Many thanks for the post, finally I read something specific instead of generic "it's being worked on, it will be better than rf1 in the end, simple".
do you think server admins would let that sort of bandwidth usage be taken up by downloads though?...most dedi servers are on approx 100gb/month which wouldnt go that far really
It would be really good if the vmod files include all the tracks and cars that are running on the server, and when the driver attempts to join, it works out what is missing on their computer, and only grab the missing components from the server. Currently if a server is running six tracks, and I already have five of them installed, when I 'get mod' it will download all six tracks, wasting time and my downloads. I think that's why everyone chooses to not include the content in the vmod. Without including the content, you get a message that track x is missing, but then you have to go find it, install it and then join the server.
+1 on the overall concern on vmods+tracks. And also for mods themselfes beeing released with tracks, meaning peeps need to have the tracks installed just to get the mod to work. Allowing this by default seems a problematic feature which can effect us all in a negative way. But since rf2 is designed as it is allot of this is up to us (users/server admins) so we could also see more options to deal with this stuff. For example if vmod+tracks is not changed then servers need to be able to provide a download link. so: Get-Mod, track missing, click on link on server-info, page opens in browser, d/l install alt+tab back to rf2 and join. Or, if possible, server admins could add this link into the vmod, so when it checks the files of the client it tells them what they are missing and provides link right away. Servers dont have to make content available through their server, it can be an external link, dont matter much. as long as the client has direct acces and does not have to go search for something. For example in my league the external link would simply be on our website or dropbox, and even if we would host a vmod+1track it would still display all the tracks we would be using in a season. making it very easy for non-members to quickly join our server. So we need more options at the minimum i reckon.
