rF2 biggest challenger?

+1 and i just went to another beta: (kart racing pro) great sim also.

 

I personally believe if kartsim ever comes out that it'll tear kart racing pro apart, but that's just judging from a video and written info

 

I hope that's not true.

If it is then I can't believe that a mod group would have the arrogance to leave such a great platform and company like isi/rf2 behind and in the dust and leave many of the RFactor fans who made their mod so big, to go to another sim that just has nicer graphics than rf2 (and if it has better physics, then rf2 will still be AT WORSE second best in the industry I believe).

If rf2 turns out to suck crap and be a simcade game and Assetto Corsa is pure sim then I understand, but:

A. Obviously RF2 will be a PROPER full sim like nk pro (although im not really a fan of it) gsc 2012, rf1, iracing (not a real fan of it either), Assetto Corsa, kartsim, and unlike so many nowadays that seem to blur the line and fudge or dumb things down, but still call themselves sims because they are sim enough to be considered sims to the mainstream (eg. Un-modified gtr2, project cars, raceroom racing experience, etc)

B. RF2 and the guys at ISI are just as obsessed with physics as the guys at AC, and the underlying physics engine of rf2 and complexities of what it can achieve with regards to vehicle dynamics calculations is really mind blowing, they said they have learned from RF Pro, which by the way is the MOST USED SIMULATION ENGINE IN FORMULA 1.

C. On top of that, all the extra "bonuses", but these aren't just fun bonuses to make the experience funner like nicer graphics or sounds, these are proper real world, un-faked, un-scripted, truley dynamic physics computations of things like, rubber on track, different rubber from different tyres, wet line, dry line, not only wet track but true puddles, different parts of the track dry different depending on shade and maybe slope affecting puddles as well? Time of day, humidity making it misty and longer to dry where there are lots of trees (think the long straights at the old hockenheim where the mist and wetness would never seem to go away, while other parts would dry quicker ), not only time of day affecting lighting and possibly weather but even time of year makes a difference (just found this out recently)

If the DRM guys are going to abandon all that and many of their fans, just because Assetto Corsa will most likely have great physics as well, then I have lost all respect for them and they truly don't know anything about a tacit simulation. If they stick with RF2 then of course I take that all back.

Itjust seems weird though, that (if it is true) they already announced no to rf2 and yes to ac, as if rf2 is just such a bad sim and ac is just so amazingly perfect.

 

We don't have to be afraid of rF2 being simcade, but there are other issues which might lead into switch to other sim platforms (e.g. mod sharing system, performance, shaders, replay fidelity, suspension animation...). I'll wait and see if these are fixed for the gold, but I don't have any high hopes. It is simply really: *if* AC or some other sim offers better platform for modders, they probably switch there.

 

1. It has nothing to do with arrogance. They have very good reasons and the graphics is only a minor one.
I don't know where you got the information, that they would change to AC JUST because of the graphics....
2. The rf-fans didn't make it great. the mod-devs made it great, because of the good physics and the outstanding models & SFX.
The fans can be thankful for all the work the teram put into the mod, that it was for free and all the fun they had using the mod.

Again: I don't know where you got the information, that they would change to AC JUST because of the graphics....
They have a lot of good reasons for changing to AC.

They definitely won't make a rf2 mod. they even hit the refund button.

 

Since when are modding groups becoming angry simmers? We as a simracing-community are doomed!!!

 

Yeah this. The main thing i get told and read alot about when hearing of teams switching to AC is rF2's modding system. It's hard for non modders to understand i think as we just dload the mods and go. But i think the new system has made a modders work so much harder and time consuming now. I think in the past rF2 was really the only viable option but now AC is looming and on paper seems to be able to match rF2 in terms of modding and judging by reactions looks to be an easier method of modding.

Also for a user it seems the new system has it's flaws. Personally i have had no issues really. Every mod i have has been fine, but look at the recent Pixsim mod and the uproar that happened over on ViirtualR. People having issues installing the mod even though they thought they had all the content needed. Most were having issues due to not having the updated Mid Ohio. Again people like myself who are active on the forum and so follow updates this is not an issue. But for Joe Bloggs who races other sims and doesn't follow updates, you can see how this is frustrating.

I hope ISI reconsider this approach personally because every day we seem to see more and more well regarded mod teams looking to move over to AC.

Me personally i'm not too fussed. I will be buying and racing AC, so no loss in terms of getting the good mods, it will just be on a different platform. And anyway, you may lose teams but others will always still appear and favour rF2 for it's features, Same goes with AC, people are going to want to see their work in the best light. Right now AC is looking far more polished in terms of visuals.

I don't think any of the mod teams owe it to their fans to stay with rF2, it's their choice. I don't see the big issues anyway. Anybody that takes their simracing seriously and values good physics will be all over AC anyway just like rF2, so you still get to try these mods either way.

 

The problems with the recent Lola T280 mod aren't problems of the new system, but the problem is that modders are not aware how to use it. Cars and tracks should be released as components. If the car is released as a component, then you can install it without needing any other content and race offline with it on every track you have installed. If you want to create a server with this mod, then you have to make a vMOD and add tracks that you want.

ISI releasing mods at the moment as rfmods doesn't help, even though they have said that in future (starting from gold release?) they will release their content as components.

Honestly, I think the new system seems to be good, but users need to understand how it works. At the beginning, I didn't like the system as well, but as time goes by, I've started to like it. It isn't that much different compared to rF1 if content would be released as components. Also it makes managing your content a lot easier. Though one of the problem I see in it is that might be a bit annoying for leagues who use SimSync or similar program and have constantly updates (for example once a week or so). Also, it would be nice to have a website like RFC, where you could easily search for cars and tracks - that would make it a lot easier for Joe Bloggs to find necessary tracks/cars.

 

But if some modders are not aware how to use it then surely something is wrong in the first place? I agree btw i like the new system and as said i have no issues touch wood as of yet. But many do have issues and that's a problem. And again for us as an end user who know what they are doing i see no issue tbh, but for a modder it seems you have to jump hurdles right now to do your work. You constantly read about the system being flawed and a pain to work with as is the tyre model by the sounds of things. It's so complex that noone knows where to start. Even Niels H has said he doesn't know what is happening.

 

Yes, I totally agree with you. I hope ISI will make a guideline/tutorial how to create/package a mod so that it will work nicely with the new system, how to name different things to remain consistent (for example if you take a look at the setups folder, tracks are named diversely and lack consistency), tutorials on the new tyre model and so on.

 

rF2_Packaging_Tutorial.pdf - 01-09-2012 in:
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/1573-Modding-Downloads

 

They leave a technically great sim that is still in heavy development and undergoing many changes to switch to a sim that there are just some videos and pics on?

So they know just how bad RFactor 2 will be and just how good ac will be even though one is still in heavy development (much more like an alpha not a beta) and the other just has some videos and pics released?

Wow that's pretty messed up. It's as if they only chose RF because there was nothing better, and are hailing and bowing down to ac. RF2 physics lead the industry, ac is the only one who can beat it, then on top of that all the dynamic weather, live track, etc etc calculations of rf2.

For them to leave the AMAZING potential of what the rf2 engine will be capable of in the next 1-5 years, just because ac may be easier to mod, seems pretty absurd and narrow minded, not to mention lazy and stubborn.

I wish em luck though, as I will most likely be buying AC as well, I just won't be giving any donations to them if all of this dropping rf2 before it has even been completed and released is true, thats all, and yes I do donate to modders, and quite a bit too.

 

Why pretty absurd and narrow minded? Who are us to judge people who is doing stuff for free? If AC is easier to work with, I think what would be absurd is to be stucked with a game which is hard to develop. Maybe it has a huge potential, but why do you want potential if almost nobody knows how to work properly with the new tire model, for instance. Even Niels was worried about this.

Instead of blaming them, blame ISI for giving so little tools/info (at least in public) to work with. If AC is really modding friendly I'd choose the same decision as them, honestly.

 

rF Pro has nothing to do with the commercial softwares.

http://rfactor-pro.com/Models.aspx

A Plugin architecture allows users to replace any or all aspects of the simulation with in-house models developed in Dymola, SIMPACK, CarMaker, CarSim, AVL VSM, LMS AMESim, C++ or Simulink1, or with any vehicle model that supports either a Simulink interface (IO Block or S-Function) or a C/C++ interface (source, .lib or .dll).

I bet that's what makes it so interesting for F1 teams, not just ISI's ability to make car physics.

Edit: In fact, there isn't a single mention about "ISI" on rFactor Pro website, so I'm not even sure what's their work there, maybe they just licensed this stuff to another company.

From the contact page:

Kangaloosh Limited, trading as rFactor Pro, Registered at The Ashridge Business Centre, 121 High Street, Berkhamsted, Hertfordshire, HP4 2DJ, UK.

 

after many long posts and a few beers on my side, let' be straight: we'll see in a while... all speculations...competition won't hurt this segment

 

Haven't you heard, AC already has the best physics evar!!?

 

What i've seen so far from videos on youtube, and my eyes can confirm it. The best physics ever! Gonna beat the crap out of realroad and all that other gizmo stuff fo sure ISI has going

I wish AC all the best, but it's a big uphill for them at this point to compete against RF2 (my personal feeling ofcourse).

If they produce something intressting, I will buy it. Really never got hooked on netkar, was happy with LFS (damn slow dev. there though!)

 

" Me thinks he doth protest too much "



I would like to think we are better then the pCARS / AC showboats and the iRacing rule and rookie whinging types.

Shame we can't just have nice things to say about them all and set a example for other communities.


I know in my heart rF2 is the next online sim, never been surer of anything, but all the rest are cool too.

 

Oh well mate they can be angry.



More for me !

Why anyone is in a hurry to pay for Gold while they still complain about 120 things

I have no idea


Relax lol


rF2 biggest challenger is itself and people that get bored easily

I mean if you cant stick around for a FISI INDY race what hope is there.


Real Racers take the good with the bad, they don't get to pick and choose.

 

How's the netcode with that combination? I would think you would have to leave alot of room since the car is so fast.