Tim, I give you some information what made a sale for me with rF1. I downloaded demo and drove ZR, it was quite nice driving car but engine sounds were the reason why I had to get more I did make some changes to ZR recently though, not yet quite where I want it to be, but anyone wanting to give a go in rF1 ZR with some changes it is here: http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1523265&postcount=27 Relatively small changes, but make quite large differences.
So anyone has wild imagination running free with gravel real road? Just imagine how some places of road will become soft, some will be hard with stones on top making true marbles effect. Like in reality one needs to change different kind of driving at different places as it is totally different to brake on hard or soft gravel, also car will go faster when driving on harder section. Now what if there will be forming of wheel tracks on road, where road is softer, driving bit side you get harder surface and can go bit faster, like in reality? From there snow and ice would not be too hard to implement, but for certain it requires lot of research. Research material
There's plans to look very seriously at other uses of the technology. One thing mentioned (apart from rally uses) was actually dirt oval racing, which has been neglected since Ratbag Games did some titles.
I have often thought that if you think of tyres and tracks as two liquids, the possibilities for different surfaces are endless.
There is a decent size market in the U.S for dirt oval sim racing. It could be a good idea for ISI to tap into it with realroad.
You being from UK, rally cross must be something you are familiar with? Combining gravel and tarmac, it would be also one to benefit from dirt oval real road, you would just need to combine dirt and tarmac real road on one track, which might be interesting. How feasible it is then, well if one is to throw B-group monsters in that can only be huge success Hmm, I think there was some dirt + tarmac tracks in rF1?
I still rate DTR:SC as one of the most fun simracing experiences I've ever had. If it supported more than one controller I think I would still race it now! The thing about gravel and dirt is that it is a bit more complex than just a "cleaning" of the track or change of grip level. RBR implemented it beautifully, and this was by developing the road surface to scoop up against the tyre. As such, the more you were sliding, the more a "wall" of gravel or dirt built up on the sidewall of the tyre, which then helped keep the car on line. Essentially, with gravel and dirt, you have a more 3D road surface. Where this development let RBR down, of course, was on the tarmac stages, where it felt like the tyres had sloppy sidewalls. This was because an element of the "scooping" was carried over. There's more on this in an interview I did with Eero Piitulainen in AutoSimSport sometime (I think) in 2005/6. It would be great to see a dev make a real go of a decent dirt/gravel/snow surface in the modern era. As nothing has come close to RBR as yet.
I work for a long time with soil in rF1, achieved very much good results in physical properties of a covering and trajectories on the road. But I don't trust ISI that they can make it everything dynamically more really, it really is very difficult, influences behavior of soil, emission from under wheels of small stones and an embankment during pro-slippings, asphalt pollution by small crumbs of soil much. And everything goes separately from each wheel. They will make dynamics of soil, but it will be generalized as with asphalt and wet asphalt, drying and cleaning of the road goes from a car track. The accounting of width of a wheel doesn't work. even effects of a dust which are in rF2 it is the changed structure of rF1. The engine doesn't generate emission of particles from under wheels. RealRoad in MXvsATV:Reflex http://postimage.org/gallery/762if1lw/
I think that something worth looking is one paper I have here, traction prediction equations for bias ply tires. Paper no 87-1622 by W. W. Brixius, Program Manager, Row-Crop Tractors John Deere Product Engineering Center. Now, it indeed covers Bias ply tires and a farm equipment, but basic mechanics of soft soil physics are still basic mechanics and that should provide some insight about what does happen when tire is in contact with such soft soil. It is ASAE paper and rather recent actually as it has few references to 1987 papers, also only 9 pages and straight to the point with formulas and stuff. Again I have no link, but should not be too difficult to find from net as I found it also, but if impossible to find I can send naturally.
I can't wait for a release of some great dirt ovals and cars that are designed to race on it. I have every release of DTR, and even had some setup help from my younger brother who raced sprint cars in real life. He told me that DTR SC was pretty much the way the real car felt, though there were some things about it that didn't equate to real life, though can't remember which things off the top of my head. If you need someone with sprint car experience to test, I will have a talk with my brother and see what he can do.
One thing ISI should look at, is the scope of their project. I think already today, they have added too much stuff that is difficult to deliver. While dirt/rally is very very important to me, I would forget all the real-road stuff, live 3d surface, etc. Just focus on single small chunk at the time - gravel roads physics. You don't have the resources to do it all. Development of rF2 should end at one point. For doing a next big thing (may it be rf3 or an addon for rF2), kickstarter could be good idea for company like ISI.
I have tried some times to watch some ovals races(NASCAR,INDY SERIES....) but after some laps where the car goes stright then left,then stright then left,then stright then left and what is the next?,mmmmmm...ok,stright again...... Just kidding!
Man, I just hope that anything involving dirt is as good or better than RBR, which is the standard. If I were ISI, I'd be spending a lot of time in RBR before putting anything out involving dirt. Having said that, how amazing would it be if ISI could bury RBR overnight! I know this is unlikely but if you can't meet or exceed RBR then why bother? I can just keep playing RBR. Am I wrong?
I can imagine gravel/dirt dynamics as also applying to road courses. Hopefully the consideration for deformation is being included. The specific instance I'm thinking of is the pit that forms on the backsides of curbs (think 24h of Daytona, backstretch chicane).
Or original Nascar at original Daytona, there were no curbs there, but at 3rd clip in series one can surely see some progression of road surface: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbjNYKZT4i4
