how are you feeling the brakes on BT20 (brabham T20)??? I love the feeling on acelerating and curves while accelerating or little brake, and with high speed.. on low speed i think that is generally on rfactor2 that have so many problems turning low speed corners dont have a good feelings on all cars.. Turning to BT20 if full push the brake pedal and the tires dont block (maybe that classic car brakes are no powerfull), but the problem start after 3 or 4 laps, when the tire is hot.. i only feel blocking tires when i try to turn the wheel and the cars goes straight (but none ffb on wheel) or if i'm lucky and have time to look the tires and see that the sponsor name is not moving... Yes you will say that with fanaleds i have to note it, yes i feel the vibration but only when i'm not pushing full brake pedal, as it there the motor vibrating could not be feel as the CSP are so hard contruction and only feel fine the rumble when i'm not pressing as hard the brake..... The problem for me is that i dont feel nothing on the wheel (ffb only goes light, thats normal but need more) i talked with some people online and having same feel with bt20 and spark f1(they use G27), are you having similar feeling or think that braking is good??? tried so hard braking on putnam park 0.91 and for me needs to give more feeling when the tires start to block, and the possibility to increase the brake to 120% or so, because (I use only right foot for braking and throttle left is for clutch) when try to brake using heel and toe technique for downshift, i could not use my full brake, that is not a problem if you use only one foot on throttle and other foot on brake...and that is suitable to so many cars a possibility to increase the brake force will be great...
Moved this thread to the main forum from the problems forum, as I think it's more a discussion thread.
While watching the Bathurst coverage they had a segment showing the steering wheels they use and explaining all the dials and functions on it. One interesting thing was said is that along with the shift LED's some teams even have a light that lights up as soon as the front wheels lock because some drivers said they had no feel or sound indicating the wheel were locking up. So not all cars will give good feedback if your wheels lock up, but thats the first I ever heard of a race team have a LED that show front lockups.
A lot of the 'feeling' depends on the load on the tire itself... often the 'locking' wheel is the inside one simply because the weight of the car has shifted to the other side during corning, so it makes sense that it will transmit little feel. Add to this differing variables such as camber/castor/suspension stiffness/damping/toe etc and it becomes more believable that sometimes it cannot be felt. This is exasperated further in a simulators FFB system as it is already overloaded with unreal feedback that is needed to compensate for the lack of 'G forces' and other sensory positives. In a real car, sensing a locking wheel is more to do with sound and brake pedal feel, you would get little indication from the wheel itself (only if cornering hard and locking BOTH wheels sufficiently to cause 'under-steer') The truth is that its a simulation with VERY limited methods of conveying such data Overall I think FFB and 'Feel' in rF2 are its strongest assets and why I love this sim so much It seems perfectly correct that on some cars you do get some feedback on wheel lock and not on others
Definitely depends on the load on the wheel in question. In a road car, if you lock the front wheels the steering gets much heavier. Not only is the load on the front wheels greater from the weight transfer, but the lateral forces of the road are also acting on the front wheels which makes it much harder to turn the wheel. I'm not sure if rFactor2 simulates this, but it should. Other Sims, including all Simbin Sims usually have the opposite affect on the steering, meaning that when you lock the front wheels or when you lose front grip the steering goes very light. I believe this was done so that the user knows when front end has lost grip. When you think about it, it makes sense with FFB wheels. The forces of an FFB motor can only go so far. So if the forces on the FFB wheel where to be greater when losing front end grip, you might not feel it because you already have forces applied when turning, or perhaps other forces. However, I think rF2 handles this in a much more realistic way, and if it doesn't, it should imo. I know this discussion was about the BT20, but I figured I would give my own opinions about steering and locking up.
thanks so much for that nice information that you are giving, so interesting.. P.D: i will have a look for the light that goes on when blocking maybe i could make a hardware mod... on the others cars i feel well the braking and blocking tires, for me is only the BT20 that i could not feel..maybe its their soft springs and suspensions..i dont know...(will try to change a little bit my tecnics for brake on this car)..
I remember that, imagine you're in a V8 going over the mountain so the sounds reverbing off the walls making it louder and you slightly lock the front left turning into Forrest Elbow.....you're not gonna know anything about it as its virtually off the ground (hence lack of feedback) + the sound interference. Certainly a good idea and the first time I've heard about that too.
If you have stiff front ARB, inner front lifts up, even if not really lifting up, it has less load and when you lock up it has so little pressure against ground that locking up is not felt very well, same if front springs are relatively stiff. To have more feel less front arb and softer front springs, would give that, it is always balance between rear and front that is acting, so even stiffer rear arb might help to get more feel, but problem here is that then you get more oversteer, no matter what change you make to get more feel for locking up front wheels, it will result more oversteer or at least I haven't figured out how to overcome that as when countering change it always removes feel from front locking up. As I use Logitech G25 wheel, I guess I have used to have no feel when going straight, it is bit of annoying, but it is how it is with this wheel.
G25 and G27 have no feel when they are straight because they are designed like this on purpose from Logitech. When the wheel is completely straight the FFB is effectively off its a FFB deadzone, not an actual steering deadzone, just a forcefeedback deadzone. No game or settings can change this, I (and others) have even complained to logitech, they specifically wrote back to me (and posted on their website as well), that this is done on purpose so that the 2 ffb motors dont kill eachother when the wheel is centred, so there has to be a small area when the wheel is centred or very close to centred, that the FFB pretty much is turned off. Its for this reason that I do not feel the rear end get loose, and locking brakes on my G25, or feel anything when the wheel is straight. I even dont feel the bumpy cobblestone roads in Lienz in RFactor 1, I can only feel it when the wheel is turned, what a disapointment, i was loosing the car more under braking and very initial turn in point, and I had to also move my brake bias around 1% further forward, I was slower and less consistent because no feel when wheel is straight. So I got the Momo Force wheel and all is good again
Yeah, it is designed function and bit annoying, but then again I have used to it and hardly ever keep wheel straight, maybe that is why I like to turn cars with throttle, to have FFB because of constant countersteering Also that is perhaps why I prefer low steering ratio as turning little does nothing there is almost always turning more than that deadzone of ffb. Hopefully they do better job in future as when knowing that issue it is certainly a deal stopper, if I would of known that, I would perhaps not got rid of my driving force gt wheel.
I have a G27 and I have to say I have never noticed this. When going straight I still feel the small kicks as I go over small bumps in the track.
