Please re-read my my post again, but more carefully this time ;-) Soooo? I see he tries to do fast lap around Monaco and sometimes has to fight with the car, but nothing unusual for me (I mean, nothing I would not see in real racing in such car on that particular track). For me, it already has but in the same time I understand it is still WIP so some things will be better than they are right now. For me it is much better and has a lot of potential to be even better. YMMV though
You don't think that's unusual? He is almost loosing the car control always in the last hairpin, for example, not in 1st gear but also in 2nd. I would expect some wheelspin, but not such unstability.
Of course, but that happens when you are pushing such car on such track... what you'd expect? And "almost loosing"...I'd say, he just got a bigger slide there, that's it. Of course I'm not saying it's perfect, 100% ok or something like that but also for me, it's definatelly far from beeing "wrong", "not correct", "weird" etc.
I'd say it's more related to this.... http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...he-RF2-tire-model-grip-levels-lack-of-control
I think it's quite an ambitious project, ISI are intending to put everything in to this sim that a racing sim could possibly need. Re.progressing in the right direction -The next few months should be a bit of an indicator, I'm kind of thinking they'll be rolling our a few more updates/builds and it will all seem to quickly come together, this build 101 for me has broken the FFB so I'm not a to happy right now but still fairly optimistic for the future. ( may even roll back to last build in the meantime )
Driving modern F1 in old Monaco should in my opinion be very very challenging, grip disappearing suddenly because of bumps. That is different with rF2, tracks are no longer billiard table smooth and one has to compensate for that in driving and with setups. Also tracks are not equal grip every place. Maybe that is forgotten? With Formula Renault I can't make even one lap around Monaco, car is just undrivable there, even with softest settings, but then again I'm not open wheeler person at all, I prefer to toss weight around and steer with rightmost pedal.
Almost loosing it, bud doesn't loose it - because car is still controllable. So is there a problem with simulation, or did the driver just apply too much throttle on exit and had to catch it? The feeling in simulation is always different, even if physics is spot on. Small slide in reality may seem big to us, because we actually feel it. The same slide in simulation may feel like nothing. That's why simulation will always feel wrong - we feel too little and too late. Slide will often develop into serious situation before we react, while in reality our reaction would be quicker. Also, lack of feeling may cause our reactions to be inadequate and therefore don't give expected response of car. This is the gap we, virtual drivers, have to cover ourselves. Personally I rely a lot on road texture's movement (on all movement actually, but this is the closest surface). This is my "seat of the pants". Other than that I try to follow the saying that you should stay ahead of the car with your reactions, not behind it - so it's less about reaction and more about prediction. Of course "staying ahead" of your car is also important in reality, but it's even more important in simracing. Simulation may be doing the same thing, but we won't feel it the same way.
Why everybody talks about the open wheelers only?We have a great cars like the Clio and the 370Z and i think that those car have a very good physics/ffb. The only thing is the over-steer should be more progressive and less Off/On mode! ps:I have no issues of grip at low velocity!
Okay it's not the same track, but it is still considered a challenging track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP8KQUPiIOg The car looks very, very planted. And look the last 2 corners, he can control the rear end so easily. I wonder what would have happened in the game. Well, most probably something similar to what happened in the first video with the F1.
If you look carefully (1:36 for example) his car is already in straight line, without being very agressive on the throttle. Then it's when he starts applying more throttle, and then the car becomes very unstable. Looks much more difficult to save than what it should be (in my opinion).
Is there sound lag or is he countersteering before heavy on loud pedal? Powersliding that happens is hard to catch, but purposely done is much easier, there is so much less information from car with virtual driving that I doubt we ever can have such level of control as in reality, especially with so high level cars, I believe that leads our reactions to be bit late because of that. At current state, when tires slide they go quickly to 200 degrees C and then grip drops really quick, I believe that is something that is in play partly here, but as model is not finished, I can't really say if model is at fault or if it is current state, or something else. With my driving abilities how ever typical reason for loosing control is this nut behind wheel and seat. But this current state is so much better than in rF1, I can get rubber burning at 1st and automatic shifts 2nd burning continues, no loss of control unless I do something stupid, that was nearly impossible to do in rF1. Also loss of grip is much more gradual, only when tires heat up with bigger slide things become ice skating, but it can even by tires that I have made that are at fault there. Also in Live for speed, when tires heat up they loose really lot of grip up to level that it is like driving on ice, I don't know if it is simulation limit or what, but clearly it seems to happen with many simulations, point when things go to ice skating varies. I wonder if it has something to do with tires not loosing material same way as in reality. My small experience is that tires loose grip when really heated, but it takes really a lot to heat them and even then it is not ice like. I'm now just looking forward for update that address tires until I can really be sure of what is thing that causes that behavior. Modulus for isi tires was something 75-80 shore rubber level, I put softer rubber value in so that probably causes some of it.
When you go slower, you have less downforce. The final hairpin at Monaco does not carry the positive camber of the other hairpin on the circuit, and does not have the speed (and therefore downforce) of any of the other turns, either. There is, and should be, less grip in that final hairpin for that car than anywhere else. It should struggle. There is also a slight slope to the start/finish straight, which drives the power input to the inside of the track, although the main reason he probably veers to the right, is likely because he is applying throttle when his wheel is turned (which on a curved straight, it has to be).
I just did tens of laps with FRenault on Monaco, Tim that was truly horrible, car is devil himself, you can't even toss it sideways into corner Anyway only problems I had that I was too scared to push car enough fast for tires to warm up, so I did not get to sweet grip zone at all, car did slide a lot when I pushed accelerator to exit from corner, but it was always quite predictable, however with default setup it was very difficult to see as car was bouncing up and down like being in washing machine. When I finally managed to do enough laps that there started to be black parts on track, it changed much better, I could even powerslide out of corners. However I really could not trust the car as it is real dog to drive with such low weight and such high power. I could caught many slides though and even when coming corner too fast at wrong angle, I could drive car to end, changing balance and direction of sliding. When launching from stand still it was stable and I could do nice 1st to 2nd gear burnouts without at trouble. But now I must retreat into safety of metal cave with glass windows, enough weight for four FR and swing back and fort saying steer clear from open wheeler, steer clear from open wheelers... edit: My slow lap for you to laugh at as attachment, those bales came to my way so I had to give them a push, I managed 1:21 something which is very good for me, some sliding but I felt being in control, except car turns too fast and scenery goes past car too fast
I'm critical of the physics in FISI and 60F1, but F3.5 is very good IMO, I did a 1min19 on lap 8, down from a 1min23 on lap 4.....and I haven't driven the F35 at Monaco either for yonks or ever. I spent a lot of time driving RACE07's F3000, so that must help, but online, most people can't drive the F3000, yet it's much, much easier than rf2 F3.5. I wouldn't do much to the F3.5, and would encourage people to keep driving it.....I used the high df set up, made no changes off default set up for Monaco.
I'm thinking well rubbered with a better set up and more practice, a 1min 17.5 could be doable{I did 1 19flat in 8 laps after reading this thread}
VERY GOOD POINT - I agree with you completely. We may all have force-feedback wheels but none of us have force-feedback chairs. There is no seat-of-the-pants information communicated to us when we're driving a virtual race car. A loss of control may start in my virtual car and I am a second behind in counter steering. So I crash (which I do a lot). If I were sitting in a real car I would notice the car getting out from under me a few fractions of a second sooner and hopefully counter-steer out of knocking the wall down. We all want realism in a race sim, but this is a factor no programmer can do anything about. Personally, I don't care for driving aids.
This is def not intended how this post is going now hahahhaha Was complaining about the lack of options (tracks/cars) we have 8 monts after release of beta. being a little to fast i think but i dont play it anymore and i want more in this game too test more MORE!!!!! its the fact were so spoiled with all the rf1 content i think. loolz
What's the point of 10 different carmods with 20 different tracks, all half done, in development with the rF2 core engine being in development months longer? I know there are some working on content and some are working on the code, but still I doubt it would be good having 10 semi-good carmods. Make the core engine as nice and good as possible and use all the latest techniques in the cars and tracks to get the most out of the core. This is what ISI is doing at the moment IMO and I'm very pleased with it.
