isi please hire eero piitulainen!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Spinelli, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I heard he got hired by another simmish style game but I read a month or so ago that he's not with them anymore, and I feel with ISI's style of such a small core team of direct employess that if you had to just hire 1 single more guy that he would make a huge difference in all positive ways for ISI, not only in the products quality but also in marketing cause this guy is pretty well know (or heard of) in the sim world.

    EERO PIITULAINEN is the genius mostly responsible for what is still by far the greatest rally sim “Richard Burns Rally“, he is a hardcore simulation purist, not some guy who just loves racing and wants a super fun and somewhat sim-ish experience (like so many other claim to be “sims“ out there).

    I read a long while ago that Eero Piitulainen admitted that although for the time he was very happy with the offroad part of “RBR“, that he did have to make some compromises for the tarmac parts (tarmac physics are still good though don't misinterpret this for saying its crap).

    So he started development of a new sim called Driver's Republic, it was to be a “regular“ racing car sim (not rally/off road stuff), and even on my cheap black momo racing wheel it felt very good. READ THIS PART --> Driver's Republic beta by Eero Piitulainen is the only sim where through either physics, force feedback, visual cues, sound or whatever it may be, it was and still is the ONLY sim where when the back end would start comming out my brain would LITERALLY feel a large lump of mass BEHIND me trying to swing around, I literally felt like there was a crap load of mass behind me trying to swing around, no other sim has ever done this, and it almost felt exactly like how the large weight behind you comes around on you in my real life racing experience. It tricked my brain into literally feeling a large mass right behind me trying to swing around. I don't get this from any other sim and trust me I've tried them ALL.

    On top of this Eero Piitulainen was very into combining physics model with sound model to get some very decent sound modeling, he was also very into actual complex motor modelling how different parts affected eachother, gas pressure, spark, timing, and he implemented some of this stuff in his sim.

    I think with ISI's philosophy of a small but highly focused (towards pure real world physics/vehicle dynamics) team, that Eero Piitulainen would be ISI's finishing touch to add to their physics side. His preciseness, dedication and experience with race vehicle physics, tyre modelling, virtual mechanical modelling and mechanical to physics to sound modelling would I feel be a HUGE wildcard in ISI's hand, and completely fit ISI's no compromise pure real world simulation philosophy.

    With how much deeper and complex physics are getting and are going to have to become (look at rF2's tyre tgm tool), I feel that Eero Piitulainen would be sort of like the final piece to just top off the ISI physics team and bring rF2 (and hopefully future products) to even greater heights, not only in mass appeal but (and more importantly) technically aswell.
     
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  2. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    If i'm not mistaken he was the guy that designed SMS and pCARS current tyre model so i would have to say no thanks. Maybe he was restricted though at SMS with what he could do seeing as they are primarily a console develolper. Not sure if he is still contracted to SMS or not, i'm pretty sure he is not no longer but he was at one point. I think ISI are doing just fine with regards to rF2's current tyre model.

    So while yes RBR was for it's time and still is now amazing. Race Track and Rally track tyre physics are very different animals. RBR felt great, his efforts with pCARS not so.

    If ISI should go for anyone i would vote for Niels Heusinkveld but that's not gonna happen seeing as he is part of Reiza. Still for me as above i think ISI are doing bloody great so far.
     
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  3. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Trust me if you tried his independant game Driver's Republic you would change your mind, it was like a mix of rfactor 2, netkar pro and some iracing, and this was years back too. It was in no way shape or form like pcars, 1000 million gazillion miles away from pcars, trust me trust me trust me, the hardcore community were raving when they tried out drivers republic years back (prob 2007ish but honestly don't remember). He is/was definetely being completely limited (probably why the guy left lol jk honestly have no idea why he left or if its even true but hopefully he did). Trust me BSNismo, I've ready many of your posts throughout the past months, you'd love this guy. Drivers repub was pure netkar/rfactor/iracing style physics, ffb, overall philosophy, that's why I thought the other sim companies were in a bit of trouble once I heard he got snapped up, but he was CLEARLY SEVERLEY being limited there, and hopefully its true that he's not with them anymore.
     
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  4. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Yes, i think i remember that sim although never tried it. I think it was pretty much thought of in the same vein as what the West Brothers were gonna do with their sim. Even so considering the point we are at right now with rF2 i have to say i'm very happy and have high hopes for the future. I don't think it's gonna happen tbh and i doubt ISI would even comment in public regrading this as it's something that would undoubtedly happen behind closed doors if it did. But yes extremely talented guy without doubt.

    Btw have you not seen the in depth tyre model video from ISI? I don't think we need to worry about rF2's tyre model.
     
  5. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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  6. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Thanks james, I know you love netkar pro, u woulda LOVED this.
     
  7. steve30x

    steve30x Registered

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    Rubbish. they are Primarily PC and port to console.
     
  8. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Nope if they were not a console developer pCARS would be a dedicated PC simulation and not a multiplatform title. They have said their core market and sales will come from consoles so yes a console developer and all their games feel like console sims.

    All games are designed first and foremost within a PC arena, that means nothing. But a team that is working on a "hardcore" simulation for a WiiU amongst others is a console developer.

    PC devs are teams like the iRacing guys, ISI and Kunos
     
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  9. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Geez watching these videos make me think of so many “what ifs“. That early development version ff1600 absolutely annihilates and destroys even the final version (1.3) netkar pro ff1600 (so overrated by ppl its not even funny)
     
  10. RMachucaA

    RMachucaA Registered

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    ISI cant afford him, simple as that.
     
  11. Uff

    Uff Registered

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    Totally nonsense. In fact the game is being developed on PC first and THEN ported to console.
     
  12. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    No not nonsense, you are missing the point. All the games are developed on PC first. Forza and GT would of been developed on PC first so that argument means nothing.
     
  13. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    Yah , Its a fact that when you are the size of SMS you simply have to develop for multi platform and the finical realities will be that you have to hit all the console check boxes first. ( though this early in development they will be working on implementing base content and engine stability)

    From reading everything they put out it seems that SMS are primarily trying to produce the next forza type game but with more of an emphasis on competition and where as forza is largely road cars SMS want to make the Forza of the race cars.

    It seems that SMS are also looking to better integrate social networking and social competitive play into Pcars than has been done in other driving games.

    But as you said the priority will be making sure the game caters to the console gamer as that's where the majority of the money will be , it will probably work fine as a pc game but I don't think the 100k or so user base of sim racers is that appealing to them and lets face it sim racers will not be happy if the majority of users can play with a game pad with assists on and beat people playing with £200-£800 FFB wheels.

    It would also be very strange for what is accentually a console developer (last 5 games or so ) to suddenly make a game targeted at pc users with an emphasis on top of the line physics.

    The only time a console dev willd o pc games now is when people like eutechnyx do a free to play game , as investors see the massive potential in this with a market that can match the console market. ( even then the code and base game is normally done by a side developer with more exsperance with the given platform not the developer that traditionally does console work)

    Another factor is that SMS know that they have nothing to lose by saying its a pc game and many developers have said this when later on its apparent the primary focus was console (Max Payne 3 , Call of duty MW)

    Simulation games like RF2 , AC, GSC , are a totally separate industry to general games and are part of the same industry as , Phoenix RC , flight simulator , train simulator, euro truck sim , its like the difference between a model shop and a toy shop.

    You get some kick ass toys in the toy shop that are just as entertaining as the things in the model shop , I would definitely say Pcars is looking to fit into the toy shop rather than the model shop and with any luck it will be a good enough simulator to direct people from the toy shop to the model shop over time :) ( mind you I still spend allot of time in the toy shop I love Track mania , CSGO , peggle , plants v zombies , point blank)
     
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  14. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Thankyou :) you understand exactly what i am saying. Anyway this was not intended as a stab at them but they were brought into the conversation as the guy that this thread is about is the same guy that has done SMS's tyre model that's all. Some people seem to love what they do so they must be doing something right eh
     
  15. Jameswesty

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    I think people like it because its very easy to drive "fast" and the tires are very grippy ( In some ways this matches real life more than other Simulators ) but the issue I and I think most sim racers have with it is that it lacks depth with the car moving in what feels like a predefined way.

    People that like the idea of driving and want to exsperance wizzing around a real world track with real looking cars and just hitting corners right ( accentually track mania but set in reality ) will love it.

    People that like to subtly balance a car around the track choosing the slip angle to line the car up or manage tires will find it very dull and uninvolved.
     
  16. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Missed this edit. Yes you are right and infact i like you can enjoy other type of racers. I still play GT5 from time to time even now as a break from the decent PC stuff. One of my favourite ever racing games was and still is to this day PGR4 on the 360, was playing it again last night. I don't dislike these type of games, they have a place.

    You know what you are getting with them exactly. With SMS they say it's a certain genre but then when you drive them it's a like a frankenstein game, i.e it doesn't know what it wants to be and the driving experience suffers because of this. SMS IMO had a real chance to make a next gen PGR with SHIFT2. In many ways it was alot like the PGR games, the cockpit movement and everything was very alike. In fact i recon SMS will be the devs behind the next PGR and they will succeed if they just stop all this simulation talk all the time and just really nail the middle ground. The reason PGR was so good was because it had the middle ground nailed, yes you could drive totally bonkers and in fact it was encouraged with the driftng points but at the same time you could actually drive it like a sim and it drove well.

    Same can not be said of any title from SMS so far, they all feel really odd. I think they really need to just nail one genre and really work on that one. GT5 i think actually feels quite nice for a console so i'm not dismisiing console devs, infact Simbin managed to get it right on the 360 with Race Pro and while it was not recieved well graphically it certainly was with physics.
     
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  17. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    Yep this is what I don't get with any of these games Forz , F1 2010,11,12 , The fact is they are not simulators and they are not arcade games they only exist because most people don't know about simulators or cannot be bothered with setting a pc up.

    I think GT5 has ended up with people migrating to pc from console which is nice and I would love to see simulators that push the technology receive higher revenue as it will progress games/simulation as an art form faster.


    PGR to me is the perfect example of how one of these console driving games should be done , its arcade but consistent the cars are nimble ( to nimble for most people on console) the game also has loads of mechanics to reward driving crazy , the track layouts are interesting and amazingly modelled its got enough depth to engage a sim racer but its packaged well and can engage the more casual racer.

    Both Track manea and PGR are better "games" than all this pseudo console driving simulators and virtually all the pc simulators are better simulators than all the pseudo console driving simulators.

    In the end it turns out that most people want to realise the aspirations set for them by car manufacturers rather than actually driving cars and that is probably why games like FORZA are so popular. In a large way its like a clothing simulator but for your average male demographic and instead of clothes its cars .

    Mind you its not "that bad" its just the driving is so dull when you have played RF2 , NKP ,GSC.
     
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  18. Jux

    Jux Registered

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    rF2 supposed to have rally racing mode at one point. They said it will not be in the initial release, but hopefully in an update some time. Having physics guru from RBR would be a match made in heaven, but I'm not even sure if rF2 will include rally mode. Seeing how all their current development has gone longer than first anticipated, the budget may not cover this. I would pay for this if it would come as DLC for rF2.
     
  19. mclaren777

    mclaren777 Registered

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    I think ISI should also steal Hudson Kerr from iRacing to make up for not hiring him six years ago.
     
  20. buddhatree

    buddhatree Registered

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    All console games are made on the PC first. That doesn't make pCARS a PC game. It's a console racer with a PC version.
     

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