having driven A LOT of this "windshield" cam (most of CMRs and a lot of RBR), I can confidently say that, it surelly is a good way to race, but realistic? No way! In my car, I sense my doors, my windshield, parts of my mirrors (so i dont need to find which button to press so i see them) and, most importand of all, my SPACE, which only a cockpit view can give you. (Either i didnt fully understand your post incal, in that case please excuse me )
I started out in cockpit view years ago, then migrated to chase view when I got heavy into editing. It's a lot easier to look at cars and tracks from various angles with that view. Every once in a while I go back to cockpit view, but the angles seem wrong as compared to what I see when I drive my car in real life-- the chase view angles are a closer match. Perhaps if I do one of the FOV change tutorials for the cockpit that would no longer be the case. That said, I do suffer from motion sickness in certain situations. Most of the time in racing games it does not come up because I'm focused primarily on what is in front of me. But if my focus has to change to off to the side-- the movement gets me. First person space shooters are the same way. First person ground shooters are right out. I can take Doom for a little while because it has a head bobbing motion. Games that have a slide motion-- like Wolfenstein-- are about 30 seconds and done. Period. I know I just carbon dated myself with those two games, but I haven't bothered to try the current ground shooters based on my experience. One thing I have tried recently is Orbiter, which is closer to my heart and fires my imagination more than sim-racing. I have similar problems with it, though. I downloaded one of the Apollo add-ons and tried the Apollo 11 landing. The scenario started farther away from the landing than I hoped, so I figured I'd learn the controls of the craft. You start the scenario inverted to the Moon-- you are upside down with relation to it. I figured I'd rotate 180 degrees sideways and put it below me. That turned out to absolutely be The Wrong Thing for me to do. Really. I went to bed about an hour and a half later and my stomach was still pissed off. I said "I'm sorry", to which it replied "Shut up. Consider yourself lucky that I haven't expressed my displeasure in a more visible manner." So I don't know how much I'll be playing with Orbiter.
Sorry man, but that cockpit video Mulero posted is about a realistic as one can get. Granted, a cockpit view with one monitor where the FOV is "fish-eyed" in order to gain some peripheral vision is not too realistic. But come on, "can't get much more realistic" than a "bonnet" mounted camera with one monitor? What FOV do you use? Oh BTW, I love the use of the word "fora"! I've never seen it used before and it hadn't occured to me use anything but "forums".
45 degrees or so. That pic is "realistic" to you? Seriously? It looks to me like you are driving from the bloody trunk. The "space" already exists, in my actual real-life driving setup, where the space between my eyes and my monitor is fairly close to the same distance from my eyes to my windshield, in just about any hard-top 4-wheeler you care to name, virtual or real. Your philosophy simply doubles the distance in question, adding on to the real eyeball-monitor space the additional, and unnecessary, virtual space between the in-game viewpoint and the windshield. And it also puts all these (cluttering) cockpit objects in my way in addition to that-I have enough clutter on my actual desk thankyouverymuch! They also give me a severe eyestrain-induced headache after awhile precisely because I am unable to defocus them like I can in a real car, since all objects in a 2D monitor are at the same distance from your eyes. That particular issue won't be resolved until we get true 3D monitors. See, that is the thorn upon which all these interminable debates about the "correct" view invariably hinge: you two obviously have different subjective assumptions about what the right view entails from what I feel is right, but you rarely are explicit about them, assuming that everyone else absolutely needs to share them or they become a "heretic" in your eyes. I have in fact (as one post upthread intimated) adjusted my cockpit cam for my favorite rides forward and upward, which is better than the default, but not quite as comfortable as the windshield cam.
TRUE FALSE - for me anyway, Im really openminded about this, just have my own preferences, for instane one of my big simming enjoyments is to see the ferrari horse on the wheel so I never choose hands on them.
I was refering to the blue car Skip Barber video. I should have been more specific. Obviously it has no trunk. Will you not admit that at least that particlar view is not too far away from the dash? And the other video with the white car is deceiving because the camera is 6 feet away in order to get all three screens into the frame. If your face was 20" away from the center monitor it would look better. As I said, I think your argument has some validity for single screen users but a 3 screen rig with 25-30 degrees FOV (vertical as in rf2) with no edge stretcing (ala multiview) is just awesome and very immersive. I do think that Krisoff's screen capture is bit too far back for my taste. But that picture is a bit deceiving too for the same reason as the white car vid. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, he isn't using "multiview". Multiview RULES, but with a high FPS tax!
Kristoffs screen shot looks like that because of the resolution. It doens't look like to him on his three screens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsvWnGgT7Ok Nico Rosberg explaining his seating position and view. Too many people use cockpit view cause they're trying to be realistic but then ruin it when they put there view/seating position high up to give them better visibility which is bs, your viewpoint is just right above the steering wheel, as Nico says himself. In my real life experience the viewpoint was always just barely able to see the top of the rim from underneath the tyre sidewall, I see so many people with these ridiculous views where you can see half of the entire wheel or even all the way to the bottom of the rim, makes me laugh.
If you're going for realism you should have the wheel turned off in my opinion. I don't like looking at my real wheel and then seeing an on screen representation of it, that's just weird!
Always drive with the wheel off , unless people are recordring videos, I cannot understand for the life of me why some people would want to see a steering wheel and arms when they are using their own steering wheel and arms lol
cause steering wheels are beautiful, thats why... From your point of view, modders and devs shouldnt bother with those beutiful cockpits I (and a lot of others I believe) really enjoy. So Im really glad, modders and devs dont take you seriously
My vision triple screens http://postimage.org/image/52vxrv1xx/ Total immersion is perfect flawless vision FOV 40
Seating position adjustments should be locked to the minimal, as the real seat would allow in the real car. Few pols above/below and infront/behind. Notepad editing in the car's files in order to change the point of view should cause mismatches. Simracers should be resoluted on this subject. It's a racing simulator, and I've never seen a driver tied on the car's roof, driving from there nor a driver controlling his car as a radio control model from his helicopter. I guess to allow different views, out of the original car seat restrictions, might cause a biased race result.
with one addition. Changing FOV affects visible/subjective distance. If FOV changes will be implemented with distance correction (I believe iR has it implemented that way) then no problem. But with current implementation and FOV, high range of FOV settings, too limited seat movement makes no sense (for example people with very low FOV would end up with nose on the windscreen without possibility to move back)
No thanks. Allow users to adjust their seat as they like and let them drive that way. Races aren't won or lost due to someone positioning their seat differently to another driver. If that's someone's excuse I suggest they practice a bit more.
