Sound as atmosphere...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nand Gate, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Registered

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    BobDobbs, I can't remember who initially brought up the low frequency sounds but I remember agreeing with whoever it was completely. It's very apparent to me as I run a bass shaker. rFactor 1 has ok low frequency but it's completely lacking in rFactor 2.

    CdnRacer, fair enough, we all have our opinions. I can't help but think you are underestimating sound though!

    Check this video out, the sound is raw as you'd hear in the cockpit (fast forward to 1:52):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyaMGez3qWU
     
  2. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    This opinion may turn easly into "good sound and nice gfx is not needed in simulator. physics is all we care about" which is of course completely wrong approach, imo.

    There are two main reasons
    1. we talking about sim, not reality. In reality tyres are most important thing. In simulation, since it is trying to cheat our brain, it must stimulate as much our senses as possible. Forgetting about sound and gfx even with great physics is just a waste.
    2. sound is nothing more nothing less, but physics. So, if sound is not simulated with enough quality (including physical correctness) it is just wrong sim.

    So, one may say that physics is more important to him, other pushes for gfx, another is more sensitive for sound. But in overall, all those things are a part of a simulation. No one part should be forgotten in the simulation which is trying to be "the best"
     
  3. Carbonfibre

    Carbonfibre Registered

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    Hey it's a new sound thread for me to attached myself too! :eek:

    Here are some others if you want some more reading material:
    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/145-Sound-Engine-infos
    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/4442-Sounds

    Side note, I think GTR3 will be very insightful. Simbin are actively marketing sim-sound, so it must be somewhat high development focus for them. I say if we just wait for that, we may learn something new about their sound engine that we could apply to rF2, and they might even allow a few of those authorized conversions, since their sources will be better than youtube audio ripping.
     
  4. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

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    Well I wasn't really impressed with that first GTR3 pre-listening at their homepage. The samples sound synthesized, those loud tire sounds are awful too. The outside sounds had some reverb which was cool, but nothing we cannot create with rf2 too.

    @Maxym: Indeed! Simple example: There is a mod in rf1 which I drive for a long time now. At some point I decided to switch the sounds to those of another mod and my laptimes got a second faster. Just because of the new sound-scape...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2012
  5. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    I agree that sound in RF2 is the area I'm personally most disappointed with, hard enough to wonder why rF1 never came with surround support and now its still not right. the 5.1/Windows Settings I use are not great, I get reverb off things nearby which is OK but I'm not hearing cars behind me, to the left/right properly. Its as though its in stereo with the reverb filling in the rest, and yeah sound is just as important as physics....no good having the best physics if you cant hear what you need to hear half the time!
     
  6. Cleverleyson

    Cleverleyson Registered

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    Infact, I would say sounds mods are one of the easy mods out there, you just need access to the cars and a few decent microphones, some fuel, tires etc. oh i guess its pretty hard.....

    I'll agree GTR sounds were very good.
     
  7. rVeloce

    rVeloce Registered

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    try driving a cool looking car with perfect FFB and handling, but sounds like a car vac....sound design is extremly important, there are a few talented sound modders out there, we need them.
     
  8. Tombasss

    Tombasss Registered

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    I agree.The sounds are not so bad,but it need some improvement.Also,as i noticed,the backfire is still visible in the same way as in rFactor 1.You must downshift and brake at the same time to make the backfire visible,but as i saw backfire in real cars,they doesnt need to down gear or brake,they just pull off the throttle and then BANG!The flame was out!I know,the backfire doesnt show again in the same time as in the previous moment and that is the case of the rFactor 1 and 2.I think,that is not realistic,and this is simulator.Sorry for my english.I tried my best. :)
     
  9. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    I don't think the sounds are as bad as some of you are saying. I do want to see full support of surround sound though. To me that is very important. All the tools are here to make great sounds for modders.

    I think the sounds are contracted out by ISI aren't they? I remember reading some sound studio in the credits.


    I still don't think that sounds are just as important as physics.


    @Playlife

    Yes that vid does sound great but I've yet to drive any sim that sounds that good. :D
     
  10. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    Yes Physics is obvously the most important aspect of a simulator but the sounds really are that bad and the better your sound equipment the worse it gets the only car that I would say passes is the 1960s F1 car , though that is still quite poor.

    The graphics are acceptable ( should be fine with good tracks and when racing with dynamic weather morning and evening)
    the physics and FFB are fantastic
    the sounds are an embarrassment

    Good sounds would more than make-up for the limitations with some aspects of the graphics and massively add to the immersion the sounds are at this point in time so bad they make me not want to play the game .

    Its not just the cars but the menu sounds are awful even technically with horable clicking and noise when you mouse over things.

    I even have a friend that simply wont play RF2 until the sounds are better or a mod comes out with with semi decent sound.

    Granted during a beta Sounds are probably not be the most important thing but I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope that by release the sounds are allot better.

    Presumably this is using the same sound engine http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_fm7LjKwrrI so it mostly seems to be an issue with the sourcing of samples.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2012
  11. BasJon

    BasJon Registered

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    I think the most important thing is the physics, then the sounds then the graphics, I also agree that most of the cars are okay like megane and 370z but oh man the gtr1 sucks lol feels like Im racing a tractor :D
     
  12. Flinx

    Flinx Registered

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    Agree with that!
    I like the physics and FFB on my new gaming rig. --- And maybe yes, some tires on cars are useful ;)
    I like to see some good graphics, thrown by my beamer onto the wall.
    But i´m missing the bubbling 22hz sound from a big block V8 (Nascar, maybe later?) through the subwoofer, shaking the living room and letting the windows vibrate.

    Also at this Beta 69, my 7.1 sound system switches rapidly between reverb surround and something like mono through all speakers...

    Please keep up the very good work, greetings from Germany!
     
  13. Saabjock

    Saabjock Registered

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    Every aspect of simulation racing is important to the senses.
    I personally rate them in order Physics and feedback, sound and then visual.
    I admit to being hard on developers of newer sims. I always expect the newer stuff to trump the older stuff in quality at every level...no exceptions..
    That is especially true, if the original has been modified and made better by folks other than the original developers.
    Have a listen to this sound (not my video)...tell me this doesn't enhance your senses?
    It does mine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYSlC7PGsrQ&feature=related
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2012
  14. thndr

    thndr Registered

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  15. Navigator

    Navigator Registered

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    WOW, that sound is just AWEFULL!! So awefull, it makes it the most beautiful sound EVER! LOL!
     
  16. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    simply brutal ! :)
     
  17. thndr

    thndr Registered

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  18. Pandamasque

    Pandamasque Registered

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    FYI: F40 LM is a Le Mans racer. Not an 'aftermarket' tuner-job.

    I agree with everyone stressing the importance of sounds in a racing sim. IMO, of all things audio is the easiest (if done properly) and most direct path to fool our brains into thinking we're in a race car.
     
  19. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    I think we are mixing two different things in this thread. One thing is what kind of quality the samples are, how they are edited and mixed, and how they are processed through game audio engine and usage of real time effects.

    The other thing is... personal preference - matter of taste. I can't possibly get interested of the most realistic and "best" sounding F1/GT car, not because it is badly made, but because I just don't like it. But I can keep listening crappy phone recording of Detroit Diesel 8V72T any time, any duration.

    If we want to be constructive about this topic, we have to completely ignore our taste about best sounding engines.


    rF2 audio engine is quite acceptable. With good source samples and giving the audio editing some thought, you can get pretty far. But frankly, it has to be the most challenging and time consuming aspect of car modding right after physics work.
     
  20. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Acceptable yes, but can use TONS of improvement. In most real videos you can tell that a car sounds super loud and powerfull even if the volume is at 1 out of 10, you can just tell, you dont need to blast your speakers to feel the power like you have to for the game and pretty much all games/sims. The doppler effect is weird and off too when the car is comming towards you and waaaammm flies by you, it just doesnt have that "waammm flying by in your face with a wall of sound" sound that it should have. The way it changes noise as it flies by you seems weird too.

    The samples are the easier part, its making the game engine do all these complex things with the sound samples that is the hard part.

    1. There needs to be wayyy more layers of sounds, different samples for different sounds of the engine.

    2. The audio engine has to be doing wayyy more "stuff" with all the samples you input into the game.

    But making such a through and complex sound engine can take lots of resources for the developers, and resources on your cpu aswell haha.

    Skip that video to 22 minutes or so and watch from there, you can tell even when the cars are far away, yes the volume obviosuly goes lower but you can still tell that they are very loud, even though the volume is lower if you know what i mean.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPUZ0WlT-2M
     

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