Remove rFmod Petition

Discussion in 'Component and Mod Packaging' started by Wrinkly Man, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    6,320
    Likes Received:
    43

    You really do NOT GET IT :)

    Just to reiterate Abriel you only download what content you like ( SELECT NONE then SELECT what you want )

    Forget the FACTS you HELP others :) and it save sites bandwidth and site costs.

    I respect sites rights to set download limits and requirements 101%

    But must be time where chasing members should not be tied to downloads
    besides surely the bandwidth costs can't be sustained much longer.


    Sheer lunacy to do so imho.

    I know I gibber on but I tried to get sites to use torrents for year n years , true ... you almost got banned like you were devil worshipper for pete's sake. lol I had used "private sim shells" for a decade and I really saw the benefit value of torrents back then.......

    Just a headups newbies used correctly torrents are 100% legal and 100% safe.


    My idea also encompassed dis - allowing no permission content in respected peoples mods. lopl

    Certainly will never have one in mine, if i did want to drive anything like that it would be on a closed private server and I would not gloat about it with screenshots and comments either, like certain
    cough cough modders do. lopl

    lol ( sheeesh )

    Something I think ISI should do now ( not mentioning any mod ) cough cough

    Private server for no permission mods, sounds good to me ?

    And get rid of the build45 ones please .... ..they squeeze my F3 ROOKIES room each side :(

    lpol
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2012
  2. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    6,320
    Likes Received:
    43
    BTW on a serious note were Abriel and I differ is I believe the torrents should only have the latest versions which even atm makes it considerably smaller.

    I do not argue you can't leave all what I suggest is a separate torrent for all older versions so when newbies download they are not confused.

    In case you yet to work it out you only need the latest versions installed I suggest you do a fresh RF to clean house IE: "rF2/installed" folder

    Catering for people that use different versions with different mods is just more confusing then ever.

    People got to get around to do it like old way, when you install a new version you clean house first.
    If that means uninstaling all in mod manager and reinstalling big deal takes a few minutes.
     
  3. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    6,320
    Likes Received:
    43
    I posted this before but as of today if you have Abriel's torrent this all you need installed.

    Note the only tracks you should have doubles are MILLS and PALM BEACH.

    Yes you can leave them all in your mod manager uninstalled or still installed, sure.

    What I do not get why would you want to do either ? .......please enlighten me :)

    View attachment 4668


    P.S. Personal preference I leave out the older Putnam and Watkins, more then enough tracks
    and I have not seen either on the server for months.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2012
  4. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    10
    because when we have 5 versions of the same track from different makers and 5 F1 mods of the same year but from different makers i want to be able to decide whats best with my mates not have you decide for me :)
     
  5. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    6,320
    Likes Received:
    43
    And you can do that by making your own mod JB of course. ? :)

    But don't expect me to keep one up to date for F3. lopl

    I was speaking in relationship to Abriels torrent.

    No one is using old versions of those tracks in any mod I can see.

    I would like to see torrents eventually by SERIES ie: so I wont find a Nascar of Watkins versions in say the Historic torrent, it will be in the Nascar track torrent. ( or something similar )

    You will eventually split large track torrents as it will help bandwidth on popular series and cars.
    I could not be bothered explaining how this will help in future, it is pretty logical anyways.
    You smart guys.

    Soon a dedicated person like Abriel will do a all cars and tracks mod and keep it updated daily. ( hint , hint ) I think the last one is dead. ?

    There is much to do individual track times, temps and wind ( gold) besides the rubber packs for individual cars. (Put all 1960 on spa they rubber different to one model )

    Indianapolis is a good example, did you notice the temps up to 45C set ? WD :)
     
  6. Diavolo

    Diavolo Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    11
    yep ... and you need to download every track and version that is used in the needed vmod. No matter if you ever want or use it. That means in furture (for example): i mostly like and use, (lets say) 12 tracks. But i have to download maybe 100 tracks, in some cases incl. different versions too.

    loool ... i have a real life! I play rf2 etc. just for fun. So no need to flood my harddisk just to be able to play online every now and then
     
  7. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,668
    Likes Received:
    48
    My ISP does not allow torrent usage at all.

    Problem with these 'dumbed down' systems (rfmod system, any modern service emphasizing easy usage) is that they really do work fine for that one planned way of usage, but they limit way of usage to that one, which is why I really prefer dragging files from zip packages, at least I know what is going where and if there is problem it is easy to diagnose with very limited number of issue possibilities.

    With automated easy to use systems you can see there is a problem, but all you can do about it is try again, instead of actually go ahead and fix that issue.

    Surely some like modern cars too, dumbed down easy to use things, but not me, I prefer ones that can be dismantled and put back together at side of road, where you can manufacture almost any part to get it back to running from everyday household items.

    Of course those not very good at computers will have issues when installing mods that way, but why it is that every each piece of software has to be made for common joe that does not understand from computers and ignoring power users? Why not have option to have dumbed down method while still maintaining method requiring user to know what he is doing?

    Some 10 years ago developers started all of sudden think that let's do programs easier to use, let's remove all the buttons and give user just one possibility and way to do things. Somewhere after MS released ribbon interface, which is still slower for me to use than menu system and all those buttons, more clicks, more mouse movement.

    I don't have anything against change, but if with change we are facing more work to get same job done, then it probably could be done differently without increasing amount of work that must be done.

    Also money does not grow at the tree, I have only 0.5M internet connection, can't afford any faster, donations are welcome, this slow speed means that it is not exactly the same how much data must be transferred, limit your bandwidth to 0.5M and do some track downloading etc. and one will soon find out how insane it is to download even single track without real need.
    So there is again one possibility that has probably not considered completely, also there are still some places where you have to pay by transferred data, so every track costs to download, luckily I don't suffer from that.

    Of course every hurdle can be worked over, but for me it would make lot more sense to have as little hurdles as possible and keep as many possibilities open as possible.
     
  8. Diavolo

    Diavolo Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    11
    Thats NOT the point!

    Ahhhhhhh! Got it:

    In 2006 i bought only some needed blue and black Jeans in my personal clothing size.

    Now in 2012, i have to buy my Jeans in all colors of the rainbow and in all available clothing size too, to make sure i can still dress my black and blue ones. Because someone means this is progressive and easier.

    Never thought how logical this solution is...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  9. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    4
    Yep, and in 2012 we are presented with a more problematic and flawed system than in 2006. Talking about progress...
     
  10. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,668
    Likes Received:
    48
    If you read this thread from beginning you can see how I have indeed kept open mind and evaluated system without judging it first, I even thought it might be good one, but when looking from all angles and seeing what has happened to other ones using this system, testing myself and seeing what happens with my system it is not quite flawless easy solution it is meant to be, but with small adjustments, for example forgetting mod manager completely, it can indeed work.

    rFactor has been firstly a modding platform for me, I really can't see it as online racing game for some reason, I would fire up LFS if I would race online from many reasons that I will not go here.

    So again different way to use the product, why not have both here and not turning back for either one, adjusting system to that should not be too big issue.
     
  11. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    4
    How about the whole vMod mishmash? Is it a benefit?
     
  12. Luc Van Camp

    Luc Van Camp Track Team Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    15
    It is quite simple really :) These are my personal views, but make sense.

    Right now, All Cars and Tracks is the only way to mix all content for offline racing. Whether this will change in the future I do not know. Perhaps using vehicle filters like 'OpenWheel', 'GT', 'TouringCar', 'Fictional' could allow ingame-rFm creation, to use rF1 terms? Or you could create a quick vMod if you want to set up a serious offline session. Anyway, since people are mentioning mismatches, I doubt single player is a big issue. You can do whatever you want using AC&T anyway ...

    OK, online :) ...

    Content should be offered as components and, as stated, this is what ISI will be doing in the future. So cars and tracks will be released separately.
    The person setting up the server creates a small vMod, selecting the cars and track(s) that will be actively run, and NOT the entire library of content that is installed on the server.
    The end-user downloads the vMod from the server, and either has the components already, or will have to download them, just like it used to be case in rF1. The vMod should only contain the content that will be used. Again, when people set up an rF1 server, they only selected the tracks they wanted to run, NOT their entire Locations folder. There is NO difference here. When my league admin sets up the server, he only puts the active track in rotation. He doesn't even offer the next league track for download until the previous event is run! So the server is using one (dedicated league) mod (component) and ONE track (component). If we wanted to change tracks during an online session, the server would have to be reloaded with the new track. This is exactly the same as creating a new vMod. Right now it takes an extra minute, but imagine if vMod creation would be done when the server loads the session, under the hood? Anyway, people who don't have the new track, would get a mismatch in rF1, and get booted. In rF2, they wouldn't be allowed to join (and could be shown a message that points them to the active content). The 'Get Mod' button is the first step to streamline the entire process, and it does a pretty good job of emulating rF1 behaviour, if used properly. It's quite perfect for league racing. You can do pretty much anything you could in rF1 in terms of functionality

    Here's a quick comparison for pickup racing:
    - in rF1, the server would be set up to load AwesomeCar on FamousTrack. A quick search on the web would list the correct content, but possibly variants or different versions of the track made by different people. Fingers crossed you managed to pick the right combination, OR install the lot of them to be sure it will load. Happy racing, hopefully!
    - in rF2, the server is set up with a vMod to load AwesomeCar_UniqueID on FamousTrack_UniqueID. A quick search on the web will list the correct content, full stop. Happy racing!

    Full rFMods are only really useful if the mod encompasses an entire series, and is meant to be stand-alone. This is pretty rare. In fact, I've only seen it done a handful of times for rF1. So yeah, creating a vMod that contains all cars and all tracks is nonsense :) . People never did that in rF1, so why would they suddenly want to put ALL tracks into rotation by including them all in the same vMod? Only reference the content you will run when you set up the server, and everything will be as smooth as it used to be in rF1, minus the mismatches. the vMod only contains the signatures of the content that will be raced on the server, NOT the content that is installed on the server that will never be used.

    The difference/issue between rF1 and rF2 isn't so much about a change to the system, it's about how that change is being used. Creating a vMod takes a minute, and should only really be created when setting up the server. Regarding the "create a new vMod every time a new track is released" comments ... no, you create a new vMod when you want to run the new track, just like you had to set up the dedi server again in rF1 after you had installed the track. I don't see much of a difference.

    Compare it to going to the shops. You can either buy food for one day, and repeat the process the next day, or you can do all shopping for an entire week (multiple tracks in rotation), but you have to buy it all at the same time and spend all the money in one go (extra download bandwidth). I have never seen a person buy ALL the food he will eat for an entire lifetime though ...
     
  13. Diavolo

    Diavolo Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    11

    Sounds partly good. (Presumed all server admins would follow this basic idea in the near future^^)

    But i hope you be also aware of the possible combinations, out of (lets say) 25 Carmods and 100 Tracks (+ possible different versions, etc.) ;)


    EDIT!!!

    Sorry, cant agree ^^

    You are forced to used a new track as soon as any server you like to join, use this track in his vmod. And again ... no matter if you will ever use this track by yourself.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2012
  14. Luc Van Camp

    Luc Van Camp Track Team Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    15
    If the server admin sets up the server with a vMod that contains his entire library of cars/tracks, then he won't get a lot of people joining the server. Setting it up properly is very important. A vMod should reference the content he would select when setting up an rF1 server.

    A vMod belongs to the server that is running the content. It would be nice if the vMod would be deleted from the client PC after X days of inactivity. They are small anyway, and their sole purpose is to carry the signatures of the content (pretty much like a key ring opening doors without you having to carry all your furniture etc in your pocket). They can be spread on the web if it is a popular car+track combination, but that should not be the norm IMO. It describes the state of that particular server ... from that particular event! NOT list everything it can possibly host. If a pickup server is configured to run Meganes at Mills all week long, the vMod in question should not contain any other cars or tracks. It would be like buying a car for your wife's daily shopping, and considering buying her a Ferrari. So why would a server force you to download content it isn't even planning to run? It makes no sense :) .

    If you look at it from a component level, you can do everything rF1 could, minus the clueless mismatching a lot of people suffered from. Perhaps we need some guidelines for server admins on how to set up their server for best results? It is quite simple though if you approach it just like rF1.

    The casual online racer should never need to create any vMods or download excessive amounts of content the server won't even run. If the plan is to cycly through ten tracks on a single night, then yeah, you will need all ten. In rF1 you'd be booted after the first race anyway, which, at a rate of 10 tracks per night, would happen after 20 minutes of racing. It's not a very realistic scenario IMO.
     
  15. JGraf

    JGraf Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    13
    when creating the vmod, download link(s) to the required content can be provided in the vmod "Desc" (description)
    ...launch the manager, right click the vmod, properties, advanced info... copy-paste dl link to web browser.
     
  16. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,854
    Likes Received:
    2,234
    All Cars and Tracks (Offline) needs filters and/or sorting out in a big way as I posted some time ago in the wish list forum:
    (http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/6362-How-to-make-All-Cars-Tracks-Mod-better?highlight=)

    Currently its basically a mess and takes too long each time you swap cars, if that area was to be cleaned up and improved then I would have no problem using it, currently though creating a vMod is the only sure fire way of keeping things simple & clean.

    Anyway hope the Server admins take your advice, vMods are simple to use when used properly but it seems that some admins hav'nt grasped that yet!
     
  17. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    6,320
    Likes Received:
    43
    So everyones opinion is rubbish

    you are right

    and you takes peoples rep because you do not agree

    What a toss
     
  18. Diavolo

    Diavolo Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    11

    Just take a look around... than you can see how this vmods are used by most server admins.
    There is a reason, why many people currently runs rf2 only offline!

    Maybe i am to dense to understand this vmod thing in all his glory^^

    But imo all this can also be done without any restrictions.


    We could have a rfmod for any carmod and a rfmod for any Track. Before joining a server, just check this 2 rfmod ID's and you have prevent all missmatches. If a server needs more than 1 track, just display a little info about it in the matchmaker. Maybe with the choice to download it. This vmod should be a exeption for special cases instead of the principle. This way we could race like it should be ... choose car, choose track ... play...
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    21
    That's awesome. Didn't know they already incorporated that into code. Cool.
     
  20. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    21
    OK so there are 28 pages in this thread so not sure if anyone can boil it down for me but tell me if what I am doing is the recommended under the current design.

    I run 60s F1 only and what I used to do is keep a vmod with 60s cars and all tracks. Now what I am doing is creating a vmod specific to my session that contains only tracks that I am running in session. This seems to work great for me. From the perspective of those who join my server, they will have lots of mods accumulating on their machine, but that should not be a problem as these can be filtered from series view when racing offline. Correct? So I don't see any problems. Am I missing something?
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page