Remove rFmod Petition

Discussion in 'Component and Mod Packaging' started by Wrinkly Man, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    Or just go into MOD manager and File>Set Mod Path...

    Than they can put their Packages wherever they want....its what I have been doing and it works quite well.

    To be honest though...if someone cant find their packages directory (mine is in a custom install area) well they would have struggled with rF1 file structure.
     
  2. Neil LCFC

    Neil LCFC Registered

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    If you have the correct car and track but not the modID you should be able to download it in game before you join the server without having to go hunting for it on some random website.
     
  3. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    Ok Gjon....I am going to make a comment on above....and then give ISI benifit of the doubt.

    The above statement verifies and backs up the reasons I believe you introduced this system. You pandered to the idiots.....

    I never ONCE had a mismatch trying to connet to a server that I didnt create the problem (screwing with the files and forgetting to replace them as an example)...my problem, not the admin of the server MINE!!!

    After playing with the new system I have made comments to people about how this is "idiot proofed"...but all it has succeeded in doing is "producing better idiots".... an old saying but I love it.

    You have done the Microsoft tact. Lets make iteasier for Mr Joe Dumbass because he complains the most, despite the fact that doign what we are doing is actually hindering/turning off the dedicated group who spent their time helpign Mr Joe Dumbass to get up and running.

    Now....onto the ISI benifit of the doubt.

    This is BETA, fully understand that, and in the past ISI have not screwed me over in any way (at least not without buying me dinner and a few drinks first) so, I have HOPE that your end goal will be ideal...because right now, in its current state...well...it doesnt improve one ioata on any system you have mentioned for rF1 and because those individuals who where willing to help the "newcomers" will not be around with this system.....well there goes the people that made the need for this system invalid.

    I for one really hope this improves out of site...because yeh...I wont be running any LANS with it...someone else will have to step up and do it.
     
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  4. kleanphil

    kleanphil Registered

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    Yes i agree Neil, all updating should be done within the game,Tracks Mods Pluggins Updates and skinpacks, everything needed downloaded as soon as you click the server no more no less
     
  5. Neil LCFC

    Neil LCFC Registered

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    It happens in counterstrike and other such games if I'm not mistaken you even have to download whole maps so at least a modid should be easy if you have the right components installed even if you can't do the whole cars and tracks in game.
     
  6. kleanphil

    kleanphil Registered

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    Also the update feature in the game startup apparently only updates the game only and not content, correct me if i'm wrong.
    Will it be use'd to update existing content as well,instead of clicking a server to find out your out of date
     
  7. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    Um guys...this size of the files here is the issue.

    What are the ISI ones...lets say 150MB average for a SMALL mod.

    Lets up that to around 500MB average for some of the average size mods with a handful of models and a average amount of teams and skins (considering the size of those files has gone up as well). Tracks, around 50MB (probably more).

    So, when I log onto that server we are taling 550MB to play the server.....thats a hell of a strain on the connection and server. I cannot recal the last FPS that had a map download of that much from a dedicated server level.

    What you are suggesting is impractical UNLESS it is linked to some sort of Synch server. That could work theoretically.

    And than there is bandwidth use on those servers.

    20 people downloading a 500MB file...10GB gone already.....and people havnt even started racing yet.

    I think the idea of a dedi server hosting and distributing is a potentially great idea, but practicallity rears its ugly head again. The size of the content is just larger....BY A LOT to a standard FPS map.

    Now someone will say ok...well we limit the speed of the update....great...so that 500MB file comes down at 10-15kbs......again practical.

    HOWEVER using it as an update system for vMOD I think is more than doable....but again, if that is the case why not drop the ID recognition back to Series and Track and have the server "generate" a txt file for the MODID...or even get rid of that whole process completely.

    Having the server PROVIDE information at the Lobby is the simplest and easiest way around MOST of the problems...Information can be added at MOD level or Server Level, however but NEEDS to include.

    MODID number - its the ONLY thing I cannot duplicate when creating a copy of a mod.

    MODID Name - just for convenience.

    Content OF that MODID - Tracks and Series ie Components

    LINKS TO RELEVANT FILES - MOD, and content....if done at MODID level OR just a TXT file associated, changing hosting locations will be simple.

    There is surely more that could be included but I think this NEEDS to be the first step of the update process.....even if nothing else changes this will eleviate a lot of issue, maybe not fix, but help make things easier :)
     
  8. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    @Gjon...what are your thoughts on that we now have to have double of everything in our install folder...i.e. a 4gig rfmod in packages/mod manager which then puts 4 gig into our installed folder=8gb ...

    i know you can take it out of packages once installed but surely thats not ideal for updating etc and hasnt as yet been recommended by ISI...are you comfortable bloating our hard drives with this system?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2012
  9. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    MM...

    I dont see that being too different to keeping a copy of the MOD file on my computer for installation later...however if you leave it in Packages AND keep a backup :)

    You can change the default path of packages from the MOD Installer...you can even have multiple all though I wouldnt recommend that...gets a bit confusing :)

    So you could point the Mod Installer to your "packages store" and it will install fine....at least mine have been :)

    Am I missing something there Beam??
     
  10. kleanphil

    kleanphil Registered

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    Yes sloth this was what my concern was that the downloads and updates were comeing from the server and not a central data base.There is no way we will allow downloads directly from our server if this is how its supposed to work.

    If people are expected to pay a yearly subscription for rF2 as which i'm sure the majority of people will do surely this is enough to create a data base for all files..New systems exist to handle this i'm sure. Surely a subscription includes free and 'easy' access to all content.

    The only help i expect to give to our members or anybody is to help maybe with the initial setup and what may be the best configuration.Dont get me wrong ,i like helping people,but my time could be better spent doing other things.ie doing laps.
     
  11. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    well sure you can move the "folder" to wherever you want but thats just shifting sand you still have double the size than what you should need somewhere on your pc...the rfmod more or less only packages so a 4gb package is a 4gb install...with old system of using rar or 7zip u could easily get a 4gb install compressed to say 500mb or less making it alot smaller for storage and alot less bloating :cool:...
     
  12. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    *also officially from ISI they say keep rfmods in your packages (according to installation guide)...and as this was designed to make it easier for people that dont know what they are doing...putting stuff here,there and everywhere isnt ideal
     
  13. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    No problem at all :)

    Just wanted a bit of clarification...I kind of got what you meant :) wanted to make sure others did as well :)
     
  14. kleanphil

    kleanphil Registered

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    Just a simple question. Who backs up all there rFactor downloads and instals to another drive?

    Pretty much every one i think.So by effect doubling up on rfactor content.

    If you put the rF2 packages files to another drive you have effectivly created a backup negating the need to backup and also may be used practicly to resort to earlier versions at a click of a button if the game is going to allow this and if thats what a server may be running.

    If your installed content is still on c and packages are on d, assuming this is the option, you have content backed up on 2 drives so whichever drive may die you have useable content that is saved.

    Installed content should allways be on c and packages on d for this to be effective ,but i think the only option is to move the whole file to else where which is pointless.

    So there fore you would have 3 working files ,the core in program files the main installed content in documents and packages on a different drive that is effectivly a backup.

    The only files that should have an option to be move should be userdata and packages the rest should stay on c,with maybe some 'advanced' options to move the other files for those with smaller SSD drives
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2012
  15. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    Reading through all the new posts it's hard to remember all the points you'd like to comment on!

    The thing that really comes to mind is the amount of shored mod content.

    For example: I'll use the V8's Unleashed mod.
    ORSM released this mod with Bathurst as the rFMOD track. Now that's one Aussie track. Now over time others may produce other OZ tracks. Each track is packed with the ORSM mod. Let's said I now have 10 OZ tracks and their all packed with the same mod in their rFMOD packages. Ok it only gets installed once to the install file but to keep all the tracks installed I have 10x V8Factor in my ModManager or package file. Sure their all in Mas so they are compressed but still add up to substantial amount of HD usage.

    Also I may want a track but I have to have the mod it's packed with. You can install the track and leave the mod but you still have the mods files in your package file.

    Going the other way isn't really a issue if you want a mod and it comes with a track because any new track never goes astray. Till you get to the stage the new mods are being packed with the most popular tracks. Now you'll start seeing multitudes of the same track being stored in you package file.

    Now to fix this is to (If you have the smarts) create a rFMOD that contains all the tracks with a mod you want. Problem still! I'm in a league and now I need their mod and track pack so the right ID is read by the server. Server 1. I know many people race in more then one league. So now I have say 3 league rFMOD installs in my package file. With this you wouldn't have your own any more, You'd delete that one. So now I must make sure I install the correct rFMOD for each time I change between the three leagues servers.

    And after all this I'm only talking one mod series. You then have a duplicate scenario if you want to run in a different series.

    Of cause you have the option of using the vMOD but that's up to the league admin but as I see it the leagues would be better off if they use rFMOD's so any update from season to season can be added as a hole to the new seasons rFMOD.

    As it stands with rF1 the end user is responsible for keeping their install up to date with the leagues they race with. Now however that responsibility falls on the admin to make sure each new season rFMOD or even vMOD is up to date before distribution to it's members.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2012
  16. kleanphil

    kleanphil Registered

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    The only way to fix this in my eye is to have all files available as individual files including mass files,plugins ,skinpacks ect and files that have been updated.The ID system should make it easy to identify any file needed for you to update without downloading the same content.

    But the only way this can work well is with a central data base with all files identyfied available seperate ,and then, and only when it has been established what files you need to update becomes clear. THEN they should be constucted into a rFMod File and sent to packages.

    At this stage,how i see it, the only time a rFmod file should be delivered to you ,should only have the content you need .

    The only way to do this is with a central data base with individual files and that the rFMod file should only be constructed when the files are sent to you,put in packages and installed.

    At this point all a rFmod ID 'should' be is simply an indicator of whats needed for that server.After that you should get only needed files
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2012
  17. Justin Schmidt

    Justin Schmidt Registered

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    do i actually got to have all the tracks installed which are specified in a vmod? and if so wouldnd it mean that i have to download them all before i can join a server? or can i join if i only got the one track that is runnng at that time? would be a bugger because i like to have just the things installed that i actually use. sorry not home for the week so i cant test it myself.
     
  18. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    With a vMOD it's calling for the content you have installed. It doesn't have actual content.

    So answer is yes, You do need all the content install that the vMOD is looking for. If you don't have a element installed the vMOD will not install.
     
  19. kleanphil

    kleanphil Registered

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    Yes Justin ,the choice to only download what is needed, then and there,and there should also be a 'select update' option to allow you to only get what you want,and can only be achieved with seperate file downloads available instead of packages
     
  20. Tony H

    Tony H Banned

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    ahh, my head hurts reading\trying to understand all this, i just pity the fool who believes this system will help 'noobs' who cant\arnt up with file structures etc... i mean what is easier then going to a site, d\l a track, dropping it into a locations folder & driving on it, then next week doing it for the next track....anything different then that is just complicating it all, imo why try fix something that isnt broken :-\
    so lets just see what the updates will be like, im not playing it atm anyhow because of the woeful eyefinity performance.....so im waiting & watching, like most.
     
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