FR3.5 and Tyre Temps

Discussion in 'Technical Archives' started by Fitzgerald, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. Fitzgerald

    Fitzgerald Registered

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    I've recently been messing around in the mod files to try and find the optimum temperature values for the engine, brakes and tyres of the Formula Renault 3.5. The files seem to say "90" for the engine, "400-700" peak torque for the brakes and "80-85" for the tyres(All temps are in Celsius).

    I've been driving around the Malaysia grand prix circuit and I can't seem to get the tyre temperatures up to anywhere near that value. The graphic for tyre temperatures in the black box also stays blue 90% of the time.

    When I do manage to get them to a high temperature (usually the loaded tyre in a corner), at roughly 60 degrees, it rapidly cools back down to 30-40 before I'm even in 5th gear on a straight.

    Am i not driving aggressively enough? or am I setting something up wrong with the car?

    I am around 3 seconds a lap slower than the AI on the Malaysian grand prix circuit with AI set to 100%.
     
  2. Rowhider

    Rowhider Registered

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    Rolling heat parameter

    I agree with you, I was pretty surprised to see my tires cooling down in straight line to cold temperature: I think than the rolling heat parameter is too low / and or air cooling parameter too high :p
     
  3. Kev

    Kev Registered

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    Well... there is no flaw i think. rFactor shows to you temperature of surface of the tire which cooled by air pretty fast. But as i saw in telemetry, tire pressure continue increasing up to 10 - 15 laps. Thats it, temperature of air in the tire increasing progressivelly despite of surface of tire cooling every straight and bumping every corner. I found such indication more useful than stable temperature as in rFactor 1 was...
     
  4. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    Not all of the things that are supposed to be heating up the tyres are turned on at the moment, including braking (unless you start to lock up your tyres, then they heat up) or any sort of loading, and this has been acknowledged by the devs. Only slip seems to heat tyres up at the moment. Keeping that in mind the temps we see are indeed very reasonable, and when the other parts are turned on everything should be dandy.
     
  5. Fitzgerald

    Fitzgerald Registered

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    Are you viewing live telemetry or a form of recorded telemetry?

    Ah, that's good to know. I trying to keep the brake temps higher than the threshold rather than balance it as I thought I could get some heat in the tyre that way but it would appear not atm :p
     
  6. JWRPayne

    JWRPayne Registered

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    I believe that the simulated temperature 'sensors' that we have in rF2 are right on the surface of the tyre at the moment, as opposed to measuring the temperature of the tyre carcass/inner tyre. I think an ISI dev said this is being looked into (giving an additional explanation to the strange cool-down the tyres show when not being stressed).

    EDIT: I just realised I'm basically reiterating what Kev said. Regardless, I think this may help explain things. Also, here is the quote regarding temps and cooling from a few days back:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2012
  7. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    Also the part I was talking about:
     
  8. SaS

    SaS Registered

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    I was frustrated with this too. But later decided to wait in practice/qualify session about 15-20 minutes to AI laid some rubber on track, then go to track and make some laps. Best line was clearly recognizable and grip was much better. My lap times was much better, just like AI drivers. No weird rear end spuns.
    I think difference between track conditions, green and red is to dramatic right now because often is impossible to drive FR3.5 on green track even on low speeds.
    Also AI is somehow not affected with green condition on track in the same way like human driver, in first 10-15 minutes it is almost impossible to match their pace.
     
  9. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    AI uses simplified physics for the most parts. It'd cripple pretty much any home computer there is if you were really trying to run the same level of physics for a load of AI cars that you're using for the player car.
     
  10. SaS

    SaS Registered

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    Yes, this is understandably but AI cars must have less grip in green track condition like player car? Do you agree?
     
  11. RJNL

    RJNL Registered

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    I'm not sure what the deal is with the FRS 3.5 mod but I cannot get that car under control up to a point where it becomes really really frustrating. Here's an example of me trying to get the car round a lap at Estoril:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vT7F8UPgWE

    As you can see it suffers from a lot of snap oversteer, power on oversteer, power off oversteer, well lets just say the car oversteers at any given during a corner. Is this all down to setup work or is the mod just undriveable?
     
  12. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Registered

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    After a few laps of running, at the end of the straight, the Renault Megane's tyre temperatures were at 35°C. Given the cold tyre is at 29°C, there is no way that the surface of a tyre at 200km/hr+ can only be 6°C warmer.

    Put it into perspective, drive your road car for 10 minutes, stop get out and feel how warm your tyres are.

    ISI have acknowledged that this is an issue so let's just wait and see the fixes they will put in place in future builds.
     
  13. RJNL

    RJNL Registered

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    I pretty much can't get the tyres beyond 70°C in the corners (80°C if I'm lucky). They cool down way to fast in my experience when you consider both the track and the ambient temperatures on a sunny day are +30°C. They usually cool down to a mere 40°C or even 30°C on the straights which makes it really difficult to get the power down in the following corner. Which results (at least for me) in an undriveable car as demonstrated in this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vT7F8UPgWE
     
  14. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    It'd take constant loading/heating of the tyre to get the carcass to warm up properly, just sliding a bit doesn't do it. It'll shoot the surface temperature up, but won't heat the carcass much. And since loading the tyres with weight shift, acceleration, braking or turning doesn't currently heat the tyres, you're not going to get the carcass to heat up unless you're sliding all the time. That's why you see the huge temperature swings. Once they turn those aspects of tyre heating on, then we'll see.
     
  15. ROON

    ROON Registered

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    Is going through the mod files the only way to find the optimum tyre teperature? I've never understood the colour coding of the temperatures HUD while you're driving. Is the optimum a green colour, while blue is too cold, yellow and red too hot? So ideally your tyres should be green all the time?
     
  16. Rowhider

    Rowhider Registered

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    As said by Playlife, when you drive your own road car: you can't touch the tyre 'cause too hot after a long travel.
    So it is clearly not possible to have so cold temperate on racing slicks tires!
    Two reasons:
    - The temperature displayed in HUD is false or wrongly interpreted
    - Wrong tires parameter
    I believe in the first option

    Like Roon, I have difficulties to understand the HUD display about tires: in my opinion the rFactor1 HUD was far more readable
     
  17. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    Do you even read the earlier posts? Many things that should cause tyre heating are turned off at the moment, only slip heats them up currently. Braking, accelerating and turning doesn't do anything unless your tires start to slip. http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/2806-FR3.5-and-Tyre-Temps?p=35829&viewfull=1#post35829
     
  18. GothaR

    GothaR Registered

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    I would like to ask if you have a problem with tyres "jumping" off the ground while under heavy lateral load. It seems to be caused by too high grip, which the tyre can't handle due to its bigger height. I have never seen this behavior in any real life formula car or in any other sim.
    I even felt the tyres are jumping off during hard braking (to T1 in Portugal) and this is ridiculous. I am using default setup, so I don't think I messed something up :)
    Do you consider this to be normal or you also think the grip is too high?
     
  19. Mechamorafa

    Mechamorafa Registered

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    I don't think this is caused by too much grip. In fact, this game suffers from lack of grip.

    In my opinion this is caused by a sum of bad suspension simulation, bad car parameters (like weight, center of gravity...), lack of grip (mainly due to the badly tyre temperature simulation), bad track modeling, etc. I don't think that just one parameter is causing this jumping, it is a chain reaction.

    The turns 1 and 2 in Malaysia looks like off road, with any car. Very frustrating.
     
  20. Marcel Pfister

    Marcel Pfister Registered

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    i only knew this jumping from driving with a gokart, but i dont know what the problem was with the gokart that i´ve driven
     

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