Hello Gentlemen, I was going through my lap data from a run in the USF-17 and and I... we don't even know what is the optimum tire temperature for these Tatuus cars. When I get an aircraft for a flight sim, there's a book with all the speed charts for each pressure altitude and what not. I paid for many cars... Steams says there's 58 Items in my inventory... I have yet to find a book, or even a simple datasheet, in any off their folders. I found the T318 TECHNICAL MANUAL on the web but it's next to useless for the USF-17. How come we get zero information, not even a ReadMe, on car we pay for? Thank You.
https://www.studio-397.com/2019/06/tatuusrelease/ https://www.coopertire.co.uk/tires/cooper-slick https://tatuus.it/ https://www.haasauto.com/tatuus/
could this help? https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/carstat-2-3-a-question-of-setup.58106/
Thank You for your effort Thomas but... The S397 page is Marketing hype with zero data. There's also no temperature data on the Cooper website... usually... that stuff is always confidential. I have clicked on everything on the Tatuus site, used Google Site: to scour it and they make nothing publicly available. The Haas page is cute though! Thank you. CarStats is a fantatic tool but it cannot read encrypted official content files. This is what we need man : Attachment #1 below (we can't even post pictures anymore... they show when I paste them but they disappear on save) The info in the T-318 book cannot be used as the USF-17 seem to have an additional upper pickup point either at the bottom of the front or at the top of the rear which plays havoc with the Anti-Effects. *** EDIT *** I figured since the additional point; "D", is listed in the first position, it must be the forward pickup point that has the additional adjustment and E,F, and G are like D,E and F in the 318 book. The adjustment is there in the the Advance Chassis setup page but we have zero information on it. What are we driving? A game on a console or what is still known as the best simulator around (minus the tires) ? Attachment #2 Bellow IRL, they do not go adjusting their car haphazardly. In our SIMULATOR, how are we suppose to adjust our cars? Again Thomas, thank you for your reply.
How detailed do you require the tyre data to be @MotherDawg ? For the Cooper slicks... Front: 180/550R13 pressure when hot: 21psi camber: -3 to -4.5 temp range: 165F to 240F Rear: 250/570R13 pressure when hot: 20psi camber: -1.5 to -2.5 temp range: 165F to 240F
I think that comes down to the individual developer and the price you pay for the aircraft, which is much much more (usually) than a single car for a racing Sim. But it is one of those areas that pretty much most Sims suffer with; "here's a new car we've worked tirelessly on for months but it's upto you to figure out the details". Very few racing Devs release intricate manuals or details the vehicles, it's just the way it is in the Sim racing world. Probably born from people demanding Car X and as soon as it's released they're demanding Car Y! I hope the above links serve you well, but go suddenly expecting all future car releases to come with data sheets, they won't.
@MotherDawg I think this actually reflects the real world. Nobody want to share their intellectual findings and optimum tire pressure is probably one of them. Its just like most of the porsche's and lmp2, where thirdparty access to engine temps and draft info have been cut off by request from the manufactures. In another perspective, reason for the missing info is probably because the cars have got so much real data, to simulate real world correctly, and we cant complain about that.
Each item available in the Steam store should have at least the same level of attention and information provided when Tim W. created the webpage for each item available for the game (until 2015). Ideally each item in the Workshop as well but the former would be the minimum to expect for an item that costs money.
In the time of rFactor 1, there were more than a few but if the other don't do it... does that make it ok ? --- Ok, You guys are too use to go at it with no information... good for Forza Motorsport... not for the "best" simulator. Click on these links, they are pages off of the Tatuus F3 book: View attachment upload_2023-11-7_15-26-21.png That is the DATUM and it is represented as the green box in the following: The A1, A2,...D1, D2 are wing positions and there are another set for how the ride heights affect the DF. View attachment upload_2023-11-7_15-29-45.png How wheel speed is affected by the dampers : View attachment upload_2023-11-7_15-35-49.png If you think the aliens in your leagues are at those level because, when doing their setups, they make it up as they go along... I got acres of swamp for sale... it's gorgeous land I tell you... View attachment upload_2023-11-7_15-42-29.png I don't want to play a game. If I wanted that, I would go shoot up some alien's ass... not try to, for hours, to come out of corner one 1 km/h faster that everybody else. Thank You and HF!
@MotherDawg I agree on the lack of information (for the vehicle, anyway), and share your methodical approach. But generally aliens are either just faster drivers than the others, or (and) try all setup options while using their skills to actually judge what's better or worse (lesser drivers can't find the limit as quickly or at all, so can't judge results as accurately). Esports level especially, they don't limit themselves to logical setup adjustments - they try everything. These ambiguous settings they'll just be trying all of them.
Thank You @Lazza, and you are right as for the CMS USF-17 series, there is no need to add tire pressure because the car is faster at the minimum permissible. Same for the camber. But for what actually works, like the Rear Suspension Positions, it's always nice to have the data... S397 did add that adjustment as an ADVANCED CHASSIS adjustment... I mean they spent the time, they went through the pain of making multiple rear geometries but we can't really use them as we do not know what we are doing. I'm happy now.
The screenshots are from the T318 manual I assume? If this sort of information isn't available then doesn't that put everyone at the same start point? As @Lazza says our "aliens" are probably just better drivers, and will also spend a lot more time testing settings. And any documentation only applies if the car mod accurately represents the real car. Koni shock absorbers will work differently to Bilstein and to AVO and to Tein... In my kart racing days we'd spend ages making changes and and testing. Going from one end of the available adjustments to the other and recording eveything in our setup book.
Technical documentation for a car would indeed be nice. Documentation for aero maps, friction curves for the brake pads, or special suspension options would make it more efficient with the car setup. At the moment it's mostly just trial and error, use your know-how on what'll work and not work, and look at the available data. Essentially just spend time in the car. If you are a very quick driver you will find a setup that's maybe 2-4 tenths off the maximum potential, even if you have close to no knowledge of vehicle dynamics. I can understand that manufacturers don't want to share everything, which is the big downside with official content. If manufacturers had no issue with it you'd find a lot of these technical manuals open for the public, but in most scenarios, they are locked behind a team area on the competition website. So there's for sure some intellectual knowledge that they don't want to leak. Tyre data is even more secretive, but you can get by it very easily since you will naturally find out how to extract the performance of the tyres. For sure lateral force curves and whatnot would make things easier, but it's totally understandable why we don't get it.
Sell the car as is for the current price, then make a 2nd option of adding a really in depth manual and charge $99.00 each.
This requires the designer of the sim car to accurately replicate the real life car and what effect changes have doesn't it? The T318 manual details the effects of changing the rear suspension settings, but if this doesn't get exactly duplicated in the sim mod then it's not going to have the same effect. The T318 pages show the effect on ride height (I assume RC is ride height), camber, anti-squat and anti-lift. The right height can be set to two decimal places. AD13 is ride height 58.48 / camber 0.13 CF14 is ride height 59.19 / camber 0.24 I'm not sure (a) if I would notice a 0.71mm difference in ride height or (b) if i could say which would be better. Our "aliens" will spend a lot time sorting a setup but that may not relate in anyway to a real life configuration. Going back to recent F1 race Lewis Hamilton was disqualified due to the "plank" wear being excessive. I've not done any online league racing so don't know how it would work, but does this sort of thing get replicated in a sim? Should it? Is it cheating?
I see you have gone to the school of eye-gouging! Would work if the car is involved in some esport competition. I think, for real-life car content, they just don't have permission to provide information. We see the relevant classes like GT3 locking aero, engine and tyre data from telemetry, so no chance of getting manuals. However, for cars like Formula Pro, IndyCar, etc. (generally cars with open telemetry), a manual should really be mandatory. I've seen iRacing provide manuals on their cars, but it's more of a guide on the setup options and an explanation of what they do. Not really relevant for rF2 because there are way fewer unique designs, but you'd instead just have documentation of areas that determine the performance.
These suspension pickup options are most certainly 100% accurate since the mounts come with specific options, so the offset down to the exact mm is known. Shown more clearly in the example picture. As for plank wear, it doesn't exist in the game (yet). I've been told that you can easily replicate this with a plugin, but I don't think there's too much interest in this. Would however be a nice thing to receive some performance loss from excessive grounding. I've seen examples of cars with very low skirts, that have too much grounding will cause a worse sealing effect of the underfloor.
While rF2 has a lot of things it can do accurately, there are a few things that still seem to be missing. Multiple wing elements, wicker/gurney flaps, and pushrod/pullrod location with correct damper length come to mind. I'm currently working on my first real physics project where I was able to obtain most of the manuals. There is just a lot of translation and best guess between the real world values and rF2 values. Going back to OP, some basic info on the car should be included. The real world manuals can cost real money so obtaining and providing those might be pretty difficult. And there might be a little fudge factor there weather it be the ability of the physics maker or the things that the simulation is able to replicate.
I made a gurney flap for the DP cars we were working on back with rF1. since the cars were not allowed front wingletts, I moved the center of pressure to match the rear wing. IT was non adustable, either on or off. I think I zero'd out the other winglet to prevent lateral imbalance
