Logitech MOMO Force Feedback Help

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by Natustell, Dec 20, 2022.

  1. Natustell

    Natustell Registered

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    I am having difficulty getting anything other than garbage out of the force feedback. My wheel is a Logitech MOMO that is confirmed to be in perfect working order with other applications. All I can feel in any car is massive damping when my front wheels' slip angle exceeds a small amount. There is no usable sensation of where the front wheels are pointing relative to velocity, which makes dealing with oversteer difficult.

    I switched to rFactor 2 from Project Cars 2, which has excellent force feedback and aligning torque sensation. I know my wheel can function well, but it needs to receive the right signals from the game. Clearly, rFactor 2 is sending some wonky signals.

    I edited controller.json and achieved very little, the feel is still crap. I don't understand all the parameters in the file and I can't find a guide. Using the built-in profile for my wheel changes nothing. The in-game force feedback strength setting behaves oddly. 10% to 100% feels the same. I only feel a difference if I reduce it below 10%. This makes me suspect that the signal is being severely clipped before it reaches my wheel. My wheel is nowhere close to maxxing its servo so it's not a mechanical deficiency.

    The line graphs illustrate what the vanilla FFB feels like and what I want it to feel like. My parameters in Project Cars 2 produce a feel identical to the Desired Feel graph. I would appreciate any guidance on how to achieve the Desired Feel. I don't want to refund this game because I can't decipher the settings, but it's currently unplayable.

    [​IMG]

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  2. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    FFB strength in the game should be 100% (probably -100, but you instantly know when it's reversed so + or - )

    Vehicle specific should be 100 or lower (often around 75). That's in the settings menu too and will change when you change cars.

    Try a car like the FISI2012 - it has clean FFB. That avoids particular cars that feel weird making you think your settings are wrong.

    The .json shouldn't need any changes. Delete/move/rename the controller.json with the game closed and then run it again to get a fresh one in case. Loading the Momo profile should be fine when in the game. Check the steering inputs look right in the calibration screen and check your rotation settings. You're obviously compromised with the 240 deg rotation but it shouldn't feel clipped the whole time.

    We could go to checking telemetry via plugin to make sure the generated FFB isn't actually constantly clipping but hopefully the above will suffice. Could screenshot your settings in rF2 as info.
     
  3. Natustell

    Natustell Registered

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    I reset my controller.json. The wheel is configured properly in-game. I tried the Forrmula ISI 2012 and it felt a little better than most cars, but still very flat.

    I heard that changing this parameter in controller.json on line 972 can help, but I don't really know what it does:

    "Steering resistance type":0,
    "Steering resistance type#":"0=use damping, 1=use friction",

    Setting Steering resistance type to 0 (the default) gives a mild feeling of aligning torque that is buried under heavy continuous damping. Setting it to 1 removes any trace of aligning torque and causes the damping to come and go in hard jerks. Steering resistance type 0 seems to be better, but still bad.

    If Force Feedback Strength is set to 100%, I have to crank Car Specific Multiplier down to 5% for it to be drivable. Otherwise, it feels like I am churning concrete.

    In Project Cars 2, I tuned my force feedback to be more informative than realistic and biased towards helping the driver feel over steer. That's what I am going for in rFactor 2. I wish there were more settings to adjust. I think that there is decent aligning torque, but I can't feel it through all the damping. I need to somehow increase the gain of certain parts of the force feedback signal and reduce others.

    I can't find a plugin that shows force feedback signal. All links seem to be dead.

    upload_2022-12-20_0-12-38.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2022
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Yeah, I'd leave the steering resistance type alone. Really the MOMO preset should be fine. I don't know what's going on there.

    The plugin (which is mine, full disclosure) is DAMPlugin, used with motec i2pro. But the FFB output comes from the physics and game settings, which I'm pretty sure will look normal because your settings are normal and you're on a clean wheel profile. It's almost like something is happening between the game and the wheel, except you're ok in other games.

    If you press Ctrl-C in the car, it'll bring up a small CPU graph in the top-right corner of your screen. The lower part contains a purple bar and histogram - I'd be curious to see whether that purple bar is reaching the right hand side, indicating (possibly wheel driver related) CPU issues...
     
  5. ThomasJohansen

    ThomasJohansen Registered

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    Could it be that you have to reverse ffb?

    I would...
    - lowering smoothing, starting by 0 and test if its too much
    - Car multiplier around 70% - 80% (this setting is to avoid ffb clipping)
    - Default max wheel angle 900 deg
    - steering wheel range 900 deg

    If you have simhub, you can get a forcefeedback overlay.
    another choice for ffb overlay is "tinypedal" https://forum.studio-397.com/index....ffb-deltabest-relative-fuel-calculator.71557/
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2022
  6. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    That doesn't make any sense. Higher caster will give more constant force, lower gives more dropoff feel. Apart from that one setting it sounds like there's not a lot of file messing about going on.


    @Natustell what are your logitech settings? PC2 might do something differently enough that good settings for it aren't working here...
     
  7. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    Your desired feel graph doesn't look right. Aligning torque doesn't grow like that, and there's a point where it falls off.

    Your vanilla feel graph might be distorted by your expectations based around PC2.
     
  8. Natustell

    Natustell Registered

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    I am aware of that, it's simplified. I was trying to say that I wanted to feel aligning torque to help me deal with over steer.
     
  9. Natustell

    Natustell Registered

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    I think I have my problem mostly fixed. I reset controller.json and set the overall gain back to 100% from 10% in Logitech Gaming Software (per recommendation from another forum). The gain setting caused a great improvement. This had no effect on Project Cars 2, for some reason.

    I was using the Spark F1 for most early testing because it tended to over steer heavily, which is what I wanted to feel. I later learned that the FFB models for the cars in rFactor 2 vary greatly in quality. The Spark F1 simply feels weird while other cars are much better. The FFB models in Project Cars 2 are more consistent across all cars, especially if you use the Informative filter, which attenuates any unique strange feel associated with a particular car.

    I just need to get used to rFactor 2's more immersive and varied FFB feel. This is solved. Thanks for the help.
     
  10. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Wow, yep, that would explain it :cool:
     

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