Disappointing Steam sale.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Simulation_Player, Nov 24, 2022.

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  1. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    iRacing is the only sim that gets away with service costs. Service costs and content costs are two separate items, so you shouldn't be comparing these apples with those oranges. The thousands of daily unorganized AC players, for instance, are generally speaking of zero services costs. If you find the service costs have value, fine, but don't go equating them to the total cost of ownership... our bank accounts know the difference!
     
  2. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    I've got one pool of cash. The money for either one comes out of the same pool. There's no difference between content costs and service costs. If I stop playing racing games, it makes no difference that I have content "value" in rF2, because I am not using it for anything. When I die I don't bequeath it as an asset to my heirs. I can't sell rF2 content. It's just a different method of spending the same money.
     
  3. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    The difference is that you can't use the content you bought for iRacing if you stop paying the sub. On LFM I can race with zero costs besides the rF2 base price, wich is something like a tenner without spending any additional money. Same goes for ACC on LFM. It's not that hard to understand that iRacing adds up over time, especialy if you are active over a longer period of time. If I would have used iRacing as long as rF2 I would have spend over 800 Euro based on your calculation. I hope you understand that this is a bit more expensive then the 30 Euro base price for rF2 (quite often discounted). Also regarding iRacing being obsolete: there is one thing that is still worth it in iRacing and that's the oval stuff. Everything else is covered by ACC or rF2 on LFM. And it doesn't matter if you have 10k people on Iracing, as you can only race against a handfull of them at the same time. LFM has over 60k registered users right. How much do you need? 100k.
     
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  4. SimDrive

    SimDrive Registered

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    You cannot race on LFM for zero cost though can you. You can only do that for the Alpine series. For everything else you need cars and tracks. Also as much as I like LFM and I hope they are successful long term, this is a 3rd party service which currently is free but you never know how long will they exist for or for long long they will stay free. Also comparing LFM to iRacing when it comes to online infrastructure is a bit silly and LFM has a long way to catch up to iRacing
    You were mentioning this :"Anyway, BTCC is the thing in rF2 on LFM right now, for 43 Euro you get everything you need (and can race all the cars) and very well done 3rd mods that are used on top of it in the series."
    This is only true until the next BTCC car is released in which case you will need to buy it to be able to race. Being forced to own all content is pretty silly and iRacing does it better than most here. Also let's not forget, you can earn 40USD back through participation on iRacing so your annual subscription ends up being less than 60USD depending on the country and taxes.

    Yes iRacing is expensive and I wish we didn't have to pay for content and subscription but so far, many titles came and went and not a single one has managed to build the same infrastructure for free for us. At least on iRacing i see what I pay for. So far on RF2 i have to say we are paying more than the other titles (excluding iRacing) but we are not getting more in return. Hopefully S397 will change that
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2022
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  5. The Great Apt

    The Great Apt Registered

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    That was exactly what happened with me today. Looked at LFM, considered buying BTCC then confirmed that, to race BTCC I'd need to:

    Buy both BTCC packs, and then the standalone BMW, even though I've no interest in driving the BMW - I mean what, I buy the BMW then another car gets released peicemeal? Nope, there's enough to play out there to scratch my itch.

    Taking a cue from Bjorn: I'm not debating whether or not they need to change how things currently work, I'm take this chance to say that how things currently work stops me spending money on the game.
     
  6. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Wich still is f*cking expensive. For the time that I have been using rF2 (roughly ten years) I would have spent 600 Euro/USD or what ever you pay - considering I kept playing it all the time wich I didn't. Even for a wealthy country like Germany, where I live, this is a quite substantial amount of money for simply playing a game. Those 60 USD are only through participation. If you are a seasonal sim racer like me, it's bad luck then. With rF2 I can come and go as I like. Hell, it wouldn't even bring me into trouble if LFM went offline. LFM can go offline, yes. But so can iRacing and all your sunk costs will be gone. I was part of a community that managed ranked BF2 servers for over ten years. Lemme tell you, if you offer quality, like LFM does, you have a big chance of running such a system for more than five years with relatively low costs.

    And btw, you have two free series. Alpine and OW. Do we really want to make a comparison what costs what? All content on those competitions is free, has very decent quality and is a quite nice change from Monza and Spa and offers a good amount of choice. This week there is BTCC on Sachsenring. I can't stand Sachsenring, so I race Tatuus cars at Road America. Right, rF2 is maybe a tad more expensive then the other sims out there, but for that it offers a pretty unique feature and rich content set that other products simply don't offer. You won't get that many free tracks somewhere else, besides AC.
     
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  7. SimDrive

    SimDrive Registered

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    Yes and iRacing also has rookie series in all categories with free content so i don't get your point. You can race there without purchasing content as well.
    In any case, yes you could have been using RF2 with one initial purchase but lets be honest outside leagues the online was non existent until 5-6 weeks ago when LFM went live. So 10 years of online competition experience (yes with added cost) vs 10 years of hotlapping or vs AI with questionable content to say the least. It's like saying Nissan Micra is better than Porsche 911 because it costs less to ensure and to fill up the tank. The experience is very difference just like is different between RF2 and iR.
    I am not trying to convince you to race on iRacing the whole topic was about RF2 not offering enough to justify the premium we pay compared to the other titles that it competes against and no, this is not iRacing (even with LFM). And on top of that, not even offering black Friday good promos just like all other sims did. All in all it's a missed opportunity to capitalize on the LFM hype which is what the topic was all about
     
  8. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Online leagues were VERY MUCH in existence prior to LFM, but the rest of the online experience was pretty much nothing, even with the Competition System. LFM has brought in daily racers outside of the league experience which hopefully will expand the total base and hopefully we'll get back to arguing about important stuff beside iR & rF2 & ACC & AMS2. (Cuz we already know who won THAT debate...lol!!!)
     
  9. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I don't understand the detabes of these threads.
    Always are the same.
    User 1 thinks that a DLC is expensive
    User 2 thinks that it's cheap.
    Then appear the defenders of other sims taking the oportunity to say that his sim is cheaper and better.
    And begins a endless debate that goes to nowhere.

    I think that the debate of "is expensive or cheap" is useful because shows different points of view about rF2, but compare with other sims is a nonsense. The "my sim is best that yours" standing is impossible to change.
     
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  10. bobbie424242

    bobbie424242 Registered

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    As proved by /r/simracing and other places, it is common knowledge that simracers are the most utterly broke category of gamers, with their hundreds or thousands <insert currency> sim hardware.
    "Will...simrace...for...food..."
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
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  11. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Dude, have you some kind of understanding how math works? iRacing has no free rookie series. You pay a sub to get access to that. 600 Euro in ten years to race rookie series, at best. Yep, are we really on the same page? I also didn't say that rF2 is cheap or anything, but you get alot of stuff that you don't get anywhere, including free mods that are top notch level of quality and an extensive feature set working out of the box, while people still have endless options to extend their experience. With other games you are dependend oin the mercy of the developer - This is what you get for the price.

    rF2 isn't a hotlap sim. It is what you make out of the game. I have barely used it for hotlapping, but mostly offline and online races. Sure there are other sims that are a bit less pricey, but they are very limited. Raceroom is a tad cheaper, but has costs for skins and stuff like that. Content isn't much cheaper than on rF2 anyway and it's the sim with the least features. ACC has an extensive feature set, but also no modding and just GT cars. AC has a huge amount of mods, but all the features are half baken. AMS2 same as AMS1 are nice but MP is pretty much noneexistent. The point is, if there wasn't some reason to play rF2, if there wasn't something that makes it stand out, we wouldn't be discussing here. I've played all sims throughout the last couple of years to have a small understanding of what I am talking about. And I can asure you, that iRacing certainly isn't the 911 while rF2 certainly isn't the Nissan Micra. I agree with you that there have been missed opportunities in terms of how the sales have been managed. But people need to understand that this has a) nothing to do with the product itself and b) that pricing structures will be different on different paltforms due to technical reasons. The prices for the content packs this year have been pretty fair if you ask me.
     
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  12. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    The interesting thing is that prices are one of the things that you can compare quite objectively and it has barely anything thing to do with sim wars or wich sim is better. I spent quite a bit over 300 Euro for rF2 until this day. Sounds alot but considering how much time I have spent with it compared to the other products and that I basicly bought everything on day 1 makes it obvious that it isn't that expensive, as I can use it all till the end of my life. If I had enough time I could go through the iRacing store list see wich tracks I have in iRacing and rF2, find the same tracks and make a list of what I would have spent in iRacing without any discount. A track costs 11,95$ in iRacing, a car aswell. Just to put that into perspective. And we still have people here saying how great iRacing is and that 4,99 for a car and 8,99 for a track are premium prices. And that's without those cute little subs. :)
     
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  13. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    Everyone can say what he wants but when the debate is between two sims, it's esterile, because nobody listen to nobody
     
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  14. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    what?
     
  15. Binny

    Binny Guest

    Doesn't MSG have about 200 employees ? A hell of a lot of sales if so to pay that wages bill, not like s397 who had about 30.
     
  16. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    rF2 is not MSG's only product and "employees" are likely a contracting force that comes & goes.
     
  17. MikeV710

    MikeV710 Registered

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    I didnĀ“t buy the Q4 pack this time around, and waited till everything sort of settled down (fixes etc.). I bought almost everything separately at my own pace for the benefit of S397 for the most part.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022

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