Released Caterham Academy

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, Aug 4, 2022.

  1. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    I feel the frequent mention of numbers without units (being percentages) and the comparison of karts to cars is a sign of how much non-sense there is in this thread. It's more a battle about who has the biggest...

    Folks with powerful wheels would feel much better if they had to lower the FFB mult to 30%. It seems like having to raise the mult makes them feel less than they are worth. You could stop looking at 100% or higher like something for loosers that you have to avoid at all cost. It's just a number without meaning. What does it mean that your wheel uses 30% in AMS2 and 100% in rF2? Absolutely nothing. You're going nuts about nothing.

    Also, karts have no differential and a very different geometry than cars. I don't understand how can you compare them. Of course forces should feel stronger for all cars, so much that you'd have to build muscle to drive some of them, and probably your rig wouldn't be able to stand the force peaks but we don't want that.

    The question we want to ask ourselves is: Do we want all cars to have the same FFB strength by making the weakest ones stronger and the strongest ones weaker or do we want something that mimics reality more closely with a broader spectrum of FFB levels?

    For the latter case we still have the mult to tune the FFB in case the far ends aren't satisfactory to us. Probably some cars have more or less relative FFB than they should when compared to other cars. Anyway, I haven't ever read anyone complain about too much FFB because in this case they have no problem decreasing the mult below 100% but then complain about having to raise it back to 100%.
     
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  2. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    If something has rfactor 2 superior to all the simulators, it is its FFB, and here you complain about that... a kart does not have suspension, so one more nonsense,... when I hear people talking about rfactor, people from other simulators, they always say that the rfactor FFB is the best... I think you should enjoy it more and be less obsessed with the FFB
     
  3. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    Wow, this thread is still about the same shit?:eek:
    Are you all so bored?:D
     
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  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Definitely whats the deal to talk this much about stuff that you can gain by tiny tweak in FFB multiplier. We had bunch of interesting posts that branched out of this though, but they are now in the past of this thread.

    Anyway... I have been invited to Caterham Racers Discord a while ago as a honor when they raced in Goodwood Circuit in AC which I did (they chose to race in the wet track layout, an absolute madlads, was very fun). Many of them race Caterham IRL if I recall correctly. So I just quickly asked their opinion, not much involvement yet, they are more into Assetto Corsa as they had great Caterham mods there for years. One guy said: "I’ve tried it, It’s very pointy. A little too much compared to the real thing for me but still really good.". I guess pointy means that it is less understeery, or more sharper, IDK honestly. Hopefully some more of them tries it and will share an opinion.
     
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  5. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    The issue with a SC2 pro at 100% in rF2 is the kerbs are too much violent, and no way to reduce only the massive violent kerb/wall effect.

    I use mostly the 30-40% range max for the SC2 pro, more, the kerbs are too much violent, I don't want en earthquake and injury for touching a kerb, it's the only one game like that.....
    The AMS2 Caterham is perfect for me, I won't drive the rF2 free car, but the AMS2 one, the FFB is great, with great custom settings, no violent kerbs if I raise the FFB gain....

    I will experiment more the SC2 pro, but for rF2, I have found that there is NO WAY to reduce the kerbs effect, and if I raise the FFB multiplier, the FFB is good and I have awesome details in a corner, but the kerbs will cause injury, and it's too much dangerous, I ask asap a fix to reduce the kerb effect if we raise the FFB multipler, and all will be fixed for the FFB and DD like SC2 pro, and I won't have any problem to use 100% or more for the Caterham or another car.

    For this reason, with a SC2 pro, rF2 can be awesome, but If I want to raise the FFB multiplier, I have experimented some risked and very very dangerous situtation which can stop my rF2 sim racing experience. I can't use a high FFB multiplier without dangerous situation with possible injury with the too strong kerb effect.

    Sadly, for this reason, SC2 pro and rF2 are not the best combo if you like very high forces and low kerb/wall effect, it's simply not possible, sadly I'm starting enjoying some others games with a better experience with a very high force (and to be honest, If I have bought a SC2 pro, it's for using it with a high force without clipping)

    And this rF2 forum or Granite forum is full of this repeated question : "how to reduce the kerb effect in rF2?"
    sc7.jpg
    sc6.jpg
    sc5.jpg
    sc4.jpg
    sc3.jpg
    sc2.jpg
    sc8.jpg

    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....tions-in-the-track-feel-way-too-strong.64930/
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....ffb-on-kerb-without-lowering-whole-ffb.56493/
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....ised-curbs-harsh-bump-torque-spike-sc2.72139/
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/ffb-on-dd2-help-needed.71489/
    https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/curbs-braking-my-wrist.147352/

    Simple answer : "no way".
    S397 have to find a fix asap, but I won't hold my breath for this.
    All the others games have a special filter for that, but not rF2...even iRacing has added this filter.

    sc9.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2022
  6. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Just for the record, not everyone uses a DD-wheel for the sheer power (Nm) they can provide, but for the Dynamic Range they offer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
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  7. Maarten Nauta

    Maarten Nauta Registered

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    This thread goes on and on but snippets like this make it worth it :D
     
  8. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Imagine repeatedly braking your fingers, arms, etc... while simracing with 70Nm industrial servo. Then cry it is unrealistic because RL drivers don't get injured like that as often as that.
     
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  9. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    If rF2 knows your wheel can do 25Nm, and you set the Mult to 100%, you'll get 5Nm while driving, 9-10 on normal bumps, and 20+ on kerb strikes (caterham specific) with your wheel on 100%.

    If you raise the in-game FFB Mult to 250% (with the caterham) the 10Nm rumble strip events hit 25Nm and any stronger forces will be clipped. Then your SC2 on 40% brings forces back to their true levels (5Nm force x 250% x 40% = 5Nm)

    You use clipping to cut off the extreme spikes, then scale it back down at the wheel.

    Some smoothing may be required to help soften any resulting square waves.

    You could also try waiting for a kerb specific filter, or some other limiting feature to be introduced, but...
     
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  10. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    iRacing has added it...like many others games.
    It is definitively my first ask now.
     
  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I don't know what other games do FFB the same way as rF2, so the solution may be easier. Conjecture obviously.

    Your other option is to stop rF2 scaling cars correctly (you're not using the direct forces anyway) and lower the steering torque capability in your wheel profile. You can put it on 3 and get pure scaled FFB just like a logitech, set your SC2 to 30% so you're limited to 7.5Nm, adjust the FFB Mult in each car to reduce clipping and get solid forces everywhere. Just run the caterham a bit higher Mult to compensate for its less clipping default.
     
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  12. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    I already use the SC2 at 30-40% range....sadly for rF2, it's hard tu use more without reducing massive details.
    Even the major SC2 dev thinks rF2 is broken ;) :
    sc9.jpg
    rF2 needs kerbs filter....more than AI fix.
     
  13. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Other titles can easily filter kerbs because they are entities and not a 3D mesh like the road. There are probably workarounds for this, but exploiting it to gain an edge in competition will be the natural consequence of this feature, because once you have a way to exclude the impact of a kerb on the physics, then kerbs will cease to exist.
     
  14. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    It's funny how people want to have everything filtered out that is uncomfortable about racing. It's the same thing as with flatspots yet they buy expensive equipment to get a more realistic experience. You just have to listen to some cars driving over kerbs to know that they can be pretty brutal.
     
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  15. azaris

    azaris Registered

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    Every major racing sim by now has 3D kerbs, at least in their latest up-to-date track models.
     
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  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    This whole FFB deal is going bit out of topic, isn't it. Yet another meme. Yet another example of RL having broken physics. Unlike in simracing, which can be easily solved by filters and other tricks like not running 70Nm industrial servo motor.
     
  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    What, you need another dev to tell you rF2 has issues? 'Welcome to the party, pal!'

    There are technical reasons a kerb filter might be more difficult in rF2, but anything is possible. Question is, if you filter by surface type, what about rejoining the track and hitting a sharp edge there? What about actual scanned rough surface joins that give strong jolts? I really don't know if a filter of that type would be be the best solution. I've always thought the rF1-style FFB limiter might be a good option, but it's never been an option in rF2 so who knows.


    Anyway, I still doubt your understanding of how FFB works. You run your SC2 on 30 or 40%, but have you utilised clipping in the way I described? Or, made the game treat your wheel like a normal wheel? That's what nearly all other games will do with it - hence you running it at 30%.
     
  18. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    but the boy wanted to run 100%..... the caterham thread has become the FFB thread
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
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  19. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    Yes, visual 3D curbs, but that doesn't mean they have physical 3D curbs. Because it's not the same having a surface that plays the curb effect than having a rough surface physically moving your wheel. In the first instance you can choose how much curb effect do you want but if you're simulating the curb physically as small bumps in the terrain, you can't filter or tune curb effects.

    We're reaching the point where some users ask for a simulation of simracing, they don't want a simulation of reality.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
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  20. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I bet in real life it happen that a driver lose the grip on the wheel. why should not happen to people using DD wheel that can express the same or more torque that can be expected in real life? Is the simulator that is broken, or is the expectation that need to be recalibrated?
     

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