rF2 competition system suggestions (by a lot of people)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by shiet, Jul 4, 2022.

  1. shiet

    shiet Registered

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    I've been thinking about this comment since Ben Rossiter-Turner asked us to fill out that survey about the competition system.

    Honestly I'm skeptical about the survey: would S397 really listen to the feedback and if they do would they change the game? The problem is S397 or should we say it's parent company Motorsports Games is a public company which means next quarterly profit is always the highest priority. There is never time to f@ck around and experiment with things because profits needs to be made, that's what shareholders want. Anyways let's hope for the best.

    So I don't know what are the priorities for S397.
    Are they satisfied with the current player count and the current profits so all they want is to develop rF2 into a game for a niche market with focus on esports thinking that would attract more people anyway or they want it to be more popular amongst all sim racers, they want to increase the player count by developing a really good online multiplayer system? How serious are they about changing the current system?

    Since I don't care about esports and broadcasts I can't comment on that path but I very much care about the popularity of rF2 amongst regular sim racers so I'm going to outline a list of changes which are needed according to a bunch of people. I spent a lot of hours watching videos, reading comments and posts on this topic also spoken with most of my sim racing buddies so I'm here to summarize my observations.

    First thing first: a lot of people think that S397 should just copy iRacing and everything would be fine. If I'm not mistaken Raceroom tried this (they have ratings, they have competitive series, they're cheaper than iR) and they have lower average active player numbers than rF2 so I don't think it's that simple. In the beginning in 2020 their online multiplayer numbers went up but since then it came back down. On the other hand we can't don't talk about iR when it comes to online mp racing because basically they're the benchmark in this field.

    There are multiple things need to change in order to attract more players to play rF2 mp and the first two are the biggest issues, they're fundamental issues so solving one but not the other won't increase the player numbers.
    The first and the second problems are: the DLC system and the missing rating system.

    S397 has to give the players the opportunity to participate in CS even if the player doesn't own all the DLC cars and all the DLC tracks in the series. Servers have to be setup on a weekly basis so players don't have to own and download everything in one big pack.
    You have to give the opportunity to players to try out things in a whim, give them a taste of the game. With the current system intrigued people have no chance to try rF2 online mp quickly and without hassle. Nobody will buy stuff just to try out something he is not even sure about he will be able to use it in the future - here I'm referring to a situation in which I purchased a car but I can't use it online because the servers are always empty - this is one of the the main reasons iRacing players can accept/tolerate/justify the pricing there but rF2 players are more cautious.

    If I want to race in series X on week 3 you have to give me the opportunity to do that even if I don't own the DLC tracks for series X week 1 and week 2 and etc.
    If I want to race in series X you have to give me the opportunity to do that even if I don't own all the cars for series X (if we're talking about a series with multiple different cars in a class).
    So if I want to participate in a GTE race with the Corvette C8R and that's the only GTE car I currently own you have to give me the opportunity to do that.

    Even if S397 decides against this because they can't change how the package system works (so we won't be able to run on a server with only one owned car from the DLC pack) they have to allow players to participate in a race on a week by week basis because buying track(s/packs) is more expensive and people don't tend to buy tracks they don't care about or don't like.
    This is a fundamental problem, even iRacing wouldn't do this. AC works like rF2, you need to own everything on the server but since AC plus all it's DLCs are super cheap it doesn't matter anymore because everybody has all the DLCs for the game. Before Kunos finished the development of AC and lowered the prices the situation was similar to rF2, the player count was much lower than now.

    The other problem is that rF2 needs ratings. Needs a "career" rating (like iRating on iRacing) and a safety rating.
    The career rating gives meaning to the races, people fight for better ratings (even if it's subconscious), it motivates them on the track because they can track their development as a driver not to mention the system needs this in order to be able to put people with same ratings in the same split.

    The safety rating is needed to filter out all the reckless drivers, without safety rating all this is just open lobby racing with a new "skin". Safety rating also needed to be able to drive better and faster cars. As a rookie you shouldn't hop into an F1 car and wreck the whole field as you wish. First you have to prove that you are not a total idiot on the track with a slow(er) car.
    In this regard Raceroom has big flaws. Firstly it's very easy to rank up from rookie into amateur races (basically 2-3 clean races are enough), secondly Raceroom is too forgiving with incident points, they allow 30-40 incident points per race compared to 17 on iRacing. This doesn't seem like a big deal but it is. There are people who defend this by saying it's more realistic this way but this allows players to have more incidents without disqualifying them and in return more serious players won't come back to race on Raceroom if the races are full of wrecks and spins.

    As far as I know the cut track penalty and jump start penalty in rF2 is as good as in ACC (giving the player a drive through penalty) so it only needs a penalty system for collisions and spins.
    What iR and ACC has is not perfect but it works. It's not a fair system because both the player who caused the incident and the player who suffered because of the incident gets a penalty but the game can't decide who caused the incident so the only fair way would be to review every single racing incident in every single race by a human and that's not gonna happen.
    A report tab is needed in the game (now it's only on Discord) where players can report intentional reckless driving behaviour and a human (S397) has to decide if that was really intentional or not based on a replay. If it was intentional a proper penalty takes place (banning for x amount of time or for good).
    What I would change is lower the max number of incident points (even lower than 17 on iR) since rF2 gives you penalty for cutting the track multiple times by default so it doesn't need to count as an incident point. And I would give more penalty points for collisions in open wheeler series because they're more fragile cars. But that's just a sidenote and I'm not an expert in penalties.

    A competition rating system is also needed (this is already in place but we don't know how it calculates the points) so the fastest players can race for winning the championship. A prize for the championship winner (and the podium finishers) is needed. As I've seen iRacing since 2008 always had a price pool of $10 000 to $100 000 which is a lot and I'm not sure S397 can afford this but they have to start somewhere (iR brought there sponsors to pay for the prizes). They could give the winner a gaming PC, DD wheel, good pedalset, VR-glass, monitor, etc. A good idea would be to give a free DLC car or track for those who participate at least in one race per week in a series.
    The thing is the prizes attract the aliens and the streamers. Aliens want to race to win the prizes but they can't race in the championship if participation is too low. So they start to spread the word.

    This brings us to the next point: important thing is that rF2 has to differentiate races in which participation is too low. For example in iRacing if there are less than 6 players on the server the race doesn't get official ratings/championship points (+2 players per class in the case of multiclass races). For example an extreme case is when only one player signs up for a race, he would win it and get all the points without such a rule in place. So rF2 has to look after this.

    All the data has to be browseable by the player inside the game or on a website, doesn't matter. Past results, points, times, ratings, etc.

    After all this the rest is fine tuning.

    There needs to be only a few well thought series at least at the beginning for a few seasons (iR started with 4 series total - 2 road+2 oval - in 2008 but the player base is much bigger now). We want to avoid splitting up the small player pool in many directions. When a player goes online and try to race he wants a race with a lot of drivers so if it's a question of races with higher participation numbers but less content (series) or lower participation in races but more content (more series) the former is the good choice.
    Low participation numbers warn off other players from joining the servers and in the end we end up with empty servers.
    It would be good if the series would offer a sort of career path. A three step career path would be enough differentiating them by the safety rating so in order to be able to race in a series with faster cars the player needs a higher safety "license". Lets say these licenses are rookie, amateur and pro (ps: I came up with these namings in my mind then I saw that Raceroom uses the same namings).

    In rookie series all the cars and all the tracks HAVE TO BE FREE content and this has to stay like this forever. Iracing does this, Raceroom made a mistake here.
    It would help if these series would run on more well known and more popular cars and more popular and higher quality tracks (mods too) to lure in more players but the main point is the content have to be totally free for rookies.
    Possibly less tracks (max 4-5) always in rotation would give bigger incentive to the players to step up on the ladder, I'm saying this because this would earn more money for S397. If the rookie series runs always on the same 4 tracks just like on iR these rookie players eventually want to try something else...

    As a sidenote running the Alpine in rookie is not the best pick, it's a nice car but it's an unknown brand, it should rather run with the Mazda MX-5 Spec Miata or the Porsche Cayman GT4 and the Tatuus F4 would be better than the F3 because the F3 is too fast. These rookie races should be 20 mins long in constant dry/sunny/lightly cloudy weather.
    Another thing to consider is that a lot of people find it fairer to race in a fixed setup series (true or not is besides the point) so they're more likely to participate. Rookie series are good to test this. Races at every 60 minutes (GT/TC at :00, F4 at :30), max 12-14 players per race; rules: only black flags.

    In the second step with amateur license requirement make a series with the GT3s and one with the Formula Renault 3.5, 30 min races with predetermined weather (rain and night too) on any high quality tracks (possibly 50/50 free-mod/DLC). Free tracks are needed so players can try the series without buying DLC tracks. Races at every two hours (GT at even, Formula at odd).
    I have a feeling that GT3s will be a hard sell in rF2 because the competition is very strong. GT3 racing is the star on iR since ~2015 and then there is AC, ACC and Raceroom, all have GT3s, ACC is basically just GT3. But it's a must to have GT3 racing exactly because it's the most famous.

    With the highest safety license (pro) we would be able to race in a GTE+LMP multiclass race on the GT side and the Formula Pro on the openwheeler side, 40+ min races, realtime weather, mandatory pitstop. Races at every two hours (GT at odd, Formula at even).
    The package system shows it's ridiculousness in the case of a hypothetical GTE+LMP race showing us the worst case scenario because if somebody wants to join such a race he has to buy all the GTE cars, all the LMP cars and all the tracks in the package...
    Basically there is no chance for an acceptable participation in a series like this right now.

    Besides these constantly running servers you can run the regular race of the week and etc. races.

    The importance of popular and well known tracks at the beginning is crucial, people less likely to race on tracks they never heard of. Because at first rF2 online mp has to offer something really attractive so players join the servers for a quick race. When there is an established player base then S397 can think about "spice things up" so lets just say tracks like Adria, Teretonga, Highlands, Mills Metro, Botniaring (just to name a few) are a no-no, maybe one per series/season.

    This is six series overall giving a career path to road racers. If more players would start to show up we could add more series, but slowly, one by one in every season otherwise the playerbase dilutes causing lower participation numbers in existing series which could lead to further dropping player numbers creating a snowball effect.
    If S397 only cares about short term profit they won't be able to resist the urge to add a bunch of different series (BTCC, Formula E, Radicals, Vee, LMP3, etc) to sell more DLCs and that would be a big mistake. Iracing has a ton of players but even there are dead series with empty races.

    Examples for later to be added series are: amateur Porsche cup, BMW M2 cup, BTCC; pro Indycar, BMW M4 Class 1. They're all famous series or brands in the real world.

    At this point adding another rookie series would be a big mistake until a few seasons with high player numbers has passed because of two reasons. The rookie races are where people get familiar with the game, where they decide if they want to stay or not, where players are the most impatient and most picky about races, they just want to jump in a race. Adding another rookie series would dilute the rookie numbers causing lower participation numbers in the existing two series which would lead to lower player numbers at the root of the whole system and we want to avoid that at all cost because servers with only a few people are a deterring factor for online players.

    If you've never seen this video I can highly recommend to watch it:



    This is how online multiplayer works. :D
    In our case the aliens (they want the prize) and the streamers (they want views) are the leaders. So S397 better reach out to some guys amongst the streamers when they make a proper CS.

    So what about Americans and oval racing? Well first of all the plugin for oval racing needs to be fixed. :D Afaik full course yellow doesn't work.

    So it wouldn't hurt to start an oval series career path but the "problem" is it wouldn't bring too much profit directly to the company because besides Daytona basically every oval content is free. But on the other hand oval racing would bring in people from NA and eventually those people would buy road racing content too.

    In rookie rF2 should go with the Legends Cars Trophy (mod), amateur with the Resurrection 1971-72 (?) (mod, needs some graphics update) and the pro series would run with the Stock Car 2018x. This wouldn't cause diluting player numbers in the road racing series because oval racing is an entirely different animal, it would mainly attract American players at first.

    So in summary:
    - DLC system
    - ranking system
    - more thought out racing series

    Final touches are:
    - players like to have custom skins. S397 needs to figure this out. Easy ingame basic skin customization + able to upload skins.
    - make a better looking modern HUD
    - place a "join practice server" button on the CS page of the different series
    - if I previously signed up to a race then when I'm on the practice server the game should warn me about the race, even better would be if it would join me automatically to the CS server when the qualification starts

    I almost forgot one thing Raceroom botched when they came out with their competitive system: they didn't promote it anywhere. I don't think S397 would make the same mistake, they release a video per new car and MSG spends a lot of money on marketing so hopefully they wouldn't forget this.

    All in all a lot of things needs to change and/or needs to be developed so it's not as easy as it seems at first. After all the points mentioned here it looks like a long list of "demands" but all we want is rFactor 2 to succeed so hopefully everyone who reads this take these suggestions in that spirit. Whether you agree or disagree please comment respectfully with further suggestions. Thank you.

    Finally here is a quote from under a 12 years old iRacing video review: "I was always turned off by the price myself, but when I saw they were having a buy 1 month, get 2 free promotion, I couldn't resist. Now I'm hooked, and will definitely be renewing. It is well worth the price, and this simulation offers a sense of accomplishment and hard-earned progress like no other."

    edit: it's interesting to see how iRacing started. In 2008S1 they started with 4 series in total. In 2008 sim racing (compared to today) and youtube wasn't a thing plus the global recession hit. I show you the total participation numbers next to the series. Looking at the numbers rF2 should be (including leagues, excluding offline players) around where iR was between 2008S1 and S2 and couldn't step forward in 9 years. So:

    2008S1
    iRacing Legends Cup (ran for 12 weeks on 2 tracks): 184
    iRacing Advanced Legends Cup (4 tracks): 139
    iR Solstice Challenge (2 tracks): 198
    iR Advanced Solstice Challenge (3 tracks): 134
    TOTAL 655 players
    2008S2
    iR Legends Cup: 826
    iR Advanced Legends Cup: 1145
    iR Solstice Challenge: 806
    iR Advanced Solstice Challenge: 997
    -new---
    iR Late Model Tour (6 tracks): 904
    iR Skip Barber (4 tracks): 792
    TOTAL 5470 players
    2008S3
    iR Legends Cup: 2386
    iR Advanced Legends Cup: 1610
    iR Solstice Challenge: 2509
    iR Advanced Solstice Challenge: 1519
    iR Late Model Tour: 1554
    iR Skip Barber: 1726
    -new---
    iR Silver Crown Cup: 495
    iR Pro Mazda: 456
    iR Legends Road Racing: 158
    TOTAL 12413 players
    2008S4
    iR Legends Cup: 1516
    iR Advanced Legends Cup: 1484
    iR Solstice Challenge: 1225
    iR Advanced Solstice Challenge: 1152
    iR Late Model Tour: 1715
    iR Skip Barber: 1811
    iR Silver Crown Cup: 157
    iR Pro Mazda: 890
    iR Legends Road Racing: 124
    -new---
    iR SK Modified: 458
    iR NASCAR Class C: 1479
    iR Radical: 203
    TOTAL 12214 players

    The last data can be found on this site https://iracer.info/2019S1/ is from 2019S1 (so 10 years has passed since the start), lots of new series was formed and gone during 10 years but lets see the remainers:

    iR Advanced Legends Cup: 8534
    iR Skip Barber: 8451
    iR Silver Crown Cup: 155
    iR Pro Mazda: 953
    iR SK Modified: 1901
    iR NASCAR Class C: 2304
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
  2. Binny

    Binny Guest

    I filled it out i hope many players/users do. I'm like you will s397 listen or implement, as i have no idea what direction they are heading what they want accomplished this yr or their goals. Lets hope BEN is more transparent with us players users as he wants our input. Imho iracing has set the benchmark follow it and improve on it.
     
  3. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I filled it out because...well, they are MY ideas, and they will listen to me won't they? ;>
     
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  4. Germano Cervini

    Germano Cervini Registered

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    I filled in the survey too, hopefully good!
     
  5. Binny

    Binny Guest

    I like your satire:D
     
  6. Stevy

    Stevy Registered

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    Like most here I also want to see rfactor and its comp system to succeed, and I agree with most parts of what you said.
    I don't want to argue here or write pro and cons about your text but just do some statements about some of your points about (known) reasons why some will or will never happen, so nothing new will be written here.

    Like you already mentioned the WHOLE game is build around that mechanic and how it works.
    So I can not see that this will EVER change in the life of rf2.
    It's like you take Counter-Strike or Battlefield and try to patch out the shooting or moving part of the game.
    It would (or is) probably easier to just make rf3 instead of rewriting rf2 so you get the "own one car and one track"-feature.

    iRacers say the same about iRacing. You can get from rookie to A in like one or two days, and you will (if you don't go super crazy) NEVER loose your A license again. There are more than enough videos on youtube about how much the iRacing system sucks and and how to make it better.
    In the end it's also a compromise about clean racing vs selling stuff.
    Make it really hard and unforgiving and you won't sell as much content as if you would just make it really easy and forgiving. Think about your daily, after work, 40y+, father racers.


    That's also something I find confusing for new rf2 players.
    In AC you can't buy single pieces of content. If you want to join sever X you need DLC x,y,z etc.
    In the rf2 item store it LOOKS like you can get away with buying single items (especially cars) just to find out you still need every GTE/GT3/LMP to join. Sell stuff like GTE/GTE/LMP in packs. You want to join the comp system? you need pack X,Y,Z etc.
    This isn't a big point but could save a lot of trouble.

    Yeah, for the top league and split where just the pros (+7k iR) drive. Not for your everyday joe. rF2 has such leagues and events too, but that's not how you will get your daily, after work, 40y+, father racers on the system. Or how much did Virtual Le Mans or the Formula Pro help rf2s player count?

    The magic word is called licensing.
    You can't just take mods (tracks and cars) and use them on the (official) CS. That never gonna happen.
    But we already have mods which are licensed and are used on the CS.
    The Alpine for example, and the ByKolles on the workshop is lisenced too iirc so you could use that too on the CS.

    Again, just because the mod is called Porsche or Mazda doesn't mean they are allowed to call it that.
    They are not lisenced, and therefore will never apprear on the CS (+ I think the quality is also lacking on most mods (but also on some offical content :D))
    (If they HOWERVER are (correct) licensed then please ignore this and use the mods asap)

    guess that will sadly never happen without offical content

    yes, yes, yes

    I did read you text yesterday, so I probably missed some points now.
    But I hope I could make some things clear why this won't happen.
    Other than that I have to agree and hope for it to happen, but I (any many others, perhaps you included) are waiting now for many years
     
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  7. shiet

    shiet Registered

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    OK, I heard about this but then again, they could set up the servers weekly so even if I have to have the full GT3 pack I don't need to have every track in advance and retroactively in the series. With single make series this would be a good start.

    It's possible. When it comes to any product there are always unsatisfied customers and yet they continue to use the product. I remember as a total noob I struggled with the rookies a lot on iR, in the end I started races from the pits just to get out of there. :D But I needed much more than two days (I'm pretty sure it was weeks). Something around that ballpark is a good start, better than nothing and better than literally 2-3 races as I heard. I don't play Raceroom so the criticism in regards to safety licenses came from longer time user reviews and comments. The rookie series is not there to punish but to "teach" good behaviour on the track.

    True. But on iR players participating I think 8 out of 12 weeks in one series get "money" to spend in the service. So that's there for average joe. Btw the events held by MSG/S397 didn't bring in players (at least partially) because they forgot to tell the audience the name of the simulator. :D :confused: (literally, no joke). Meanwhile iRacing puts their logo on literally everything.

    That's interesting because I see Adria, Highlands and Teretonga in the Open wheel sprint series not made by S397 but those are all licensed? Good to know.
    Anyways it came up a lot in comment sections but iR started with much less and became much bigger so it's probably not the biggest problem at the beginning. It would be good to know how this works, can S397 use mods or not (without licensing). If not they could just ask modders to rename their car/track :D

    I'm from the EU but would love to race on ovals online. Not to mention US players. It's a big letdown if what you say is true (basically no chance for ovals in the CS).

    Thanks for the comment. I've been waiting since 2013. :D :(
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  8. lagg

    lagg Registered

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  9. shiet

    shiet Registered

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    Ahh I see, now I understand. So the Open Wheel Sprint is based around the Tatuus F3 which runs in a New-Zealand championship in real life and this company based in the Netherlands (same as S397, they probably partnered up) made these New-Zealander tracks for rF2. Interesting.
    Not trying to be an asshole but if I would rate the appearance of these tracks on a scale of 5 (S397 Donington gets 5) these would be around 3 so not really prime candidates for an official series in a game which tries to take itself seriously. They need some quality texture work (grass, trees, mountains). They weren't updated since 2019-2020. Sorry but I call them like I see them.
    As a free mod they're fine.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
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  10. Stevy

    Stevy Registered

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    It's not about who made it but if they have a license.
    Look at the ByKolles
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2615221052&searchtext=Bykolles
    or the Alpine
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2362626369&searchtext=alpine
    not made by a company but by a modding group which (somehow) got the license.
    So LMP1 racing is possible on the CS, we have the Car :D

    Also the thing with iRacing is, I think they also had luck and did, back in the time, a very risky move in simracing.
    In 2008 simracing was nothing but AI or league racing.
    And somehow they saw that multiplayer in gaming got bigger and bigger and decided let's make a multiplayer only sim.
    Something which was not availible back than beside your "let's crash all in T1 L1" public racing in racing games (not even sims)
     
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  11. shiet

    shiet Registered

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    OK, so I still don't understand something.
    Lets say S397 starts a server with an unlicensed mod track from the workshop and with their own cars. This server is free to join.
    S397 doesn't want to sell the track (obviously, they didn't create it).
    S397 doesn't ask money for the service (the server).
    What they intend to sell are the cars but that's a totally independent content from the other two.
    So then why is this illegal?

    If they would start a server with an unlicensed mod track and an unlicensed mod car (so they don't intend to sell anything) that would be the same as when some rF2 league admin starts a server and I never would've thought that it's illegal to be an admin.

    Or am I stupid? :D

    In regards to iR yes they were lucky but I suppose you heard about the first mover advantage theory (which is bs) and one of the main takeaway of the theory is that you never know when it ends (so iR can't be sure they will rule the online mp sim racing title forever). You've heard about Google, Volkwagen, Airbus. These are the biggest companies in the world in their field and they all overtook much bigger and older well established companies. So the successors also have advantages, the most important one is that they are the main beneficiaries of an established market.
    In the end consumers don't care if a company was first to the market, all they care about is who is best fulfilling their needs. The question is what gap left untouched by other sim titles in the online sim racing space and if rF2 can fill those gaps. It can be better service, better content, better prices, better something, S397 has to figure this out.
    edit: funny thing is they could be a powerhouse in online oval racing with prices cheaper than iR because there is no oval racing in any other title :D . Yet - AMS2 will add ovals in the near future.

    Sorry I talk too much. :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  12. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    S397 is a company that charges money by their products.
    The use of unlicensed content can be used as argument to sue them by the owners of the circuit, because S397 would take profit of the use of that circuit to sell their products.
     
  13. Enzo Mouchel

    Enzo Mouchel Registered

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    Hello, I have a few questions for you regarding the point system in the open wheel series competition. How are the points distributed after each race? Do we get more points if we race more? Why is the limit of points 500 per meeting?
     
  14. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    It would be better if you ask in the subforum of the series.
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?forums/official-competitions-contests.214/
     
  15. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    The use of unlicensed products could be construed as an enticement to users that would later profit S397 when those users purchased other items after being influenced by the unlicensed content. In essence, S397 would then be profiting off the work of others, which in most countries would probably run afoul of copyright laws. (copyright laws are wildly different for most independant countries so you could have dozens or even hundreds of legal interpretations) Even if the track or car was made by a private individual for no personal gain, the holder of the licensed material(i.e. Ferrari or Macau or the FIA etc) could engage lawyers to recover what they would consider to be lost revenue.(plus the cost of the legal action)
    Think of it this way: A musical pop band is struggling to get noticed. On one of their first albums they sneak in a cut from those Kpop guys. Fans of the Kpop group notice & word gets out, This might entice fans of the Kpop boys to buy the new band's product but the Kpop pretty boys get nothing. Then the lawsuits begin. Led Zeppilin has been fighting legal actions for 50 years due to the first few seconds of Stairway to Heaven resembling another band's guitar lick. So even if it UNLIKELY any legal action will occur, most companies avoid any such possibility. Just try and get an ACC track into iRacing...
     
  16. shiet

    shiet Registered

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    OK, I get it. :)
    Btw they have unlicensed contents in the workshop under fantasy names (Sao Paulo, Stock Car 2015/18, Formula ISI 2012, MonteCarlo, etc.) just like ISI had (Matsusaka, Northside International Raceway, Eagle Creek, Mountain Peak, etc) so they could affiliate with some of the modders like ISI did, it seems all they need to do is to rename the content (Road America -> Elkhart Lake, Mosport -> Mos Port, Porsche -> Darche :D).
    Anyway this is not the most important part of the problem, they have enough content to make good CSs but in the long run they need more famous tracks for sure.
    Btw I don't know how but FCY works now, I guess S397 fixed it? I tried it on road courses and on ovals too, both were good. Earlier when I tried on road courses the FCY never ended... But it's still not perfect, on ovals the AI cars in the pits went on a rampage, they completely lost their mind killing each other (I don't know if this is an AI bug and not the dll's fault, or both).
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
  17. shiet

    shiet Registered

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    So I've read a few CS blogs made at the beginning of 2021 and now I'm pessimistic.
    In one hand S397 wants to do ratings, "reputation" system and such which is good, one half of the equation.
    On the other hand when they were asked about the packages the answers were depressing.

    Q: Will we have to keep buying cars we’re not interested in driving or will this change in the future? A while back I took a break from rFactor 2 so there are some cars I don’t have and I can’t join the GTE series even if I already have the car I want to drive. A couple of cars is already enough to stop me from returning to rFactor 2. I can’t imagine how many new players this will stop from getting into the game.
    Martin Vindis


    A: So this would require a huge technical change, basically a rewrite of how the package system works. We decided against that and instead offer much better pricing on car packs compared to some of our competitors. We will always keep running competitions with free content, and will even consider properly built and licensed community created content. You can also expect future bundles that are tailored to our competitions and can be bought at a discount.

    Q: Why did you choose to make a single series (or rfmod) per competition instead of a separate one per event or session? Doing so would allow people to compete who do not own all the tracks, if they are interested in competing in only a few sessions.
    lagg

    A: We debated that and decided against it. Series are an important, and underused concept in rFactor 2 and be properly leveraging them we can use them as the basis for not just online competitions, but also single player events and offline championships in the future, and people can easily use them to host servers with the same content. If we ended up having to generate a series per session in the most extreme event, you’d end up with a ton of them on your system and we would have to start making ways to uninstall them again, etc.

    Q: Will we be able to join the races in a series with the tracks we do own and skip the races with tracks we don’t own yet? Would be reasonable because we already need to own all the cars in a series.
    EricW

    A: Technically, you are right, we could generate a separate series (rfmod) for each individual event. We decided against that though as you end up with a lot of different installed series instead of the much nicer model we have now, where if you have one series installed, you can be sure you have everything you need to participate in any event. This also gives us a good basis for using series elsewhere in rFactor 2, such as an offline championship.


    Until they change their mind when it comes to at least the single package per competition the CS will not be popular. This package thing is the most criticized part of CS in reviews and comment sections.
    Very interestingly they in part explain the necessity of these packages with offline championships which is also a long awaited feature in rF2 but never came. Now they suddenly care...
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2022
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  18. brt

    brt Administrator Staff Member

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    Just a really quick jump in from me because this seems like a strange path for this thread to go down.
    1. Of course almost all business is about revenue and profit, ultimately the only way (shockingly) for a video games business to make revenue is by having people buy their game or DLCs - hence why we're listening to what you guys think - we actually do want you to play our game/sim
    2. CS will never use unlicensed content for the legal reasons many people have already mentioned
    3. CS development is only, as of a week ago, under my direction so I'm happy for you to disregard any answers from staff members so far about CS runs (particularly regarding rfmods and owning all content in a linked series) for the future system - that's clearly not a great user experience. Owning all of the cars participating in a single race is a more tricky development question.
    As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing more urgent than delivering a good online experience for my favourite sim so we're working hard ;)

    Hope this helps, will try to pop in from time to time
     
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  19. Love Guitars n Cars

    Love Guitars n Cars Registered

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    S397 can't hold iracings jockstrap when it comes to an online racing system. Even popular games like ACC or giants like Codemasters F1 series will never come close to what iracing has. I'll never understand why people want to always compare.
     
  20. shiet

    shiet Registered

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    Thanks for the response.
    Good to hear that you guys reconsider how the system works in regards to those packages. Now I'm less pessimistic. :)
    We all want rF2 to succeed so GL!
     
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