LMP3 Dampers Settings (?) Issue (?)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Duif, Mar 13, 2022.

  1. Duif

    Duif Registered

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    Since yesterday i'm trying to figure out what is going on with dampers in both LMP3 cars.

    Usually i'm not using N/m/s units, but one of our community driver, while preparing for LMP3 series noticed, that dampers settings are very... interesting.

    How dampers works we all know - more dampening, stiffer dampening, means that damper is harder to move. And without changing to N/m/s units, everything looks fine. All dampers settings are "looking" like they should.

    When dampers units are set to N/m/s you can spot something very different. That actual settings are not correct.

    All dampers settings (except for Fast bump) are... inverted.
    When you increase dampening, dampening becomes actually softer. Both for slow bump/rebound, and fast rebound. Fast bump works correctly.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    On those screenshots you can see that vwhen it should be stiffer, it's actually softer (less dampening), except for fast bump, which works in a correct way.

    I also checked other cars, for example Formula Pro, and there everything looks correctly. It is like that ONLY in both LMP3 cars, which made me thinking, that it can be some kind of bug in LMP3 physics.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Anyone has any clue what's going on here?
     
  2. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    When you use the default numbers, and you click the arrow to the right, does it actually raise the number? I know that there are cars for some reason where clicking plus, the number actually goes down
     
  3. Duif

    Duif Registered

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    Yes, but that's not the thing - in those cars you're mentioning if number goes down, damper is still stiffer. In LMP3's number goes up, in ALL dampers settings (including fast bump), but actual values are inverted for slow bump/rebound, fast rebound. That's definitely not how it should look like.
     
  4. Robin Pansar

    Robin Pansar Member

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    What you are describing isn't necessarily wrong as a damper can be set up like that.
    I'm assuming that they've gotten some data after visiting the LMP3 team some time ago and applied that to the Norma and Ligier.
     
  5. ThomasJohansen

    ThomasJohansen Registered

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    where can you change to nm?

    Edit found it in player.json
    changing to true:
    "Damper Units":true
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2022
  6. Duif

    Duif Registered

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    Just tested it, also in Motec.
    It's definitely wrong in LMP3 cars.

    By setting it to minimum value in rf2 (1 -> maximum to the "left") it should be softest dampening. Meanwhile it's stiffest setting.

    That's "maximum to the left setting"
    [​IMG]

    That's maximum to the right.
    [​IMG]

    As far as i know it should be opposite.
     
  7. Robin Pansar

    Robin Pansar Member

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    A click up or down on the damper isn't forced to be higher click = stiffer. It's whatever the car is configured to.

    Taking a real life example from the manual of an Audi R8 LMS:
    [​IMG]


    As you see, a lower click value shows a stiffer setting. Obviously it works a bit different IRL since you rotate a knob for damper setting, but translating this to rF2 you'd have ex. B1 as the base value and a negative value for the increment per click.
    Or you could start with ex. B21 as base value. It doesn't really matter as long as you know what does what.
     
  8. Duif

    Duif Registered

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    I know about that. But i'm showing different thing here.

    Actual dampers setting numbers are normal.
    In Audi, for example, if you will increase damping in game you will go from B21 to B10 let's say. And that's all right. But actual Force in N/mm/s will increase. Like on your graph you showed.

    Here, in LMP3, you increase damping (at least you think you increase damping), but Force in N/mm/s is lowering, so there's less damping.
    And i would understand that, if it would be for ALL dampers setting like that (and also some notification about it). In cars you said, it's like that for all dampers setting, and what's more, if you will go to max/min value it will say (soft) or (hard).

    Here it is like that only for SLOW BUMP/REBOUND, FAST REBOUND, but for FAST BUMP it works in a correct way. And without units visible, numbers for all those dampers settings are working the same, just value is changing in different way.

    The graph you posted is showing exactly my point - it doesn't matter what damper setting is called, if it's B1 or B21 is stiffest, it matters that if you will click + it will become stiffer. In LMP3 you click +, "number" goes from, let's say 14 to 15, but actual dampening is going toward softer side. And for Fast Bump for some reason it goes other way around (which doesn't happen in cars you mentioned).
     
  9. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    It depends upon the shock manufacturer. I think it's Ohlins that are inverted, so the numbers appear backwards. Look at the Mclaren GT3(if my memory is correct, maybe it was the Audi GT3) it is the opposite of the most of the other GT3 cars.
    One way to visually see the difference is the click repeatedly until you reach the end of either range(+,-) Many of the S397 cars have some added text that will appear when you reach that end point, something like Max or Minimum. When you can see the text you will know which way softens the car's dampers and which way stiffens them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2022
  10. Duif

    Duif Registered

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    But please, read my posts before replying. It's not about NUMBERS. Numbers are not inverted.

    Actual value of dampening is inverted.
     
  11. Robin Pansar

    Robin Pansar Member

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    Doesn't look wrong to me. A bit confusing yes where one setting gets stiffer in the opposite direction to the other settings, but there might be an explanation as to why it is like that. Judging by the damper histograms in one of your previous posts it does what the values say at least, so you are not misled anywhere.

    There is no inherent law that a right click in the game should mean a stiffer damping rate, it's whatever you set it up to be in the physics. As long as you know the pattern and it's clear there are no issues.
     
  12. Duif

    Duif Registered

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    I agree - it does what value says.

    The issue, that to discover it (looking at values) you have to edit player.json.

    With standard numeric values people have no idea about it - they will use + button to add dampening and they will see increased numbers.

    IMO completely not how it should be, especially with fast bump being other way around.
     
  13. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    for this issues to not happen for casual players, s397 should keep damping unit = true by default.
     
  14. Duif

    Duif Registered

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    Easier and more clear solution - invert those settings as they should be.
     
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  15. Antti R

    Antti R Registered

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    In all honesty, I think casual players are put off fast by the endless weirdness going on in this sim. Despite being on rF2 since the beta release in 2013 I still struggle to get my head around many things and whenever I fool myself thinking I am starting to understand the logic behind it all, there's a change like this which leaves me absolutely puzzled.

    I mean surely somebody in the QC had to try the car, tweak the settings and see that they produce expected results?
     
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  16. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    yea it is quite tough trying to keep track of all the quirks of rf2 engine. everything needs to be as clear as possible and should follow a same standard pattern.
     
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  17. Alex96

    Alex96 Registered

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    I also think that it is confusing, if you are not seeing the N/mm/s units, and also that reverse order with FAST BUMP; I think it's not logical.
    I seem to remember that Tatuus USF also works the other way around -(left) is +, and +(right) is -, and I think you can't see the N/mm/s units.
    The Cadillac DPI bug is another one I remember.
    Who knows how many more there are...??
    For me they are small details, but they make me wonder if they are just errors or botches, and how long an S397 worker would spend to solve.
    I don't know if I should call it laziness...
     
  18. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    problem i observe is S397 adds content and then they forget about them and onto next content they go.
    There are multiple reports of older paid premium content dating back YEARS ! , some of them have quite major problem and some of them are minor issues.
    S397 should really double down on fixing problem on older premium content, not only this will be good for us player it will save them a alot of troubles having to keep track of problems in all cars, the more problematic, bug ridden content they add the more bigger the list of "need to be fixed"......this loop continues on and on, kinda frustrating.
     
  19. Antti R

    Antti R Registered

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    I'm just baffled how things like these can go through quality control. I mean, surely there must be few guys testing the content before it's released, checking that changing values in setup screen yields to desired results. Surely these things can happen and with community mods it's more than understable, but when we pay for content, one would think somebody tested the content properly before selling it to us. I can understand not being able to catch bugs that rise on a really specific occasion but I think something like adjusting damper values, should work as expected.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2022
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