Camera stabilization High do not work or need extra option

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by magicfr, Jun 29, 2021.

  1. magicfr

    magicfr Registered

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    Hello,
    Camera stabilization high, do not completely stabilize the camera, the camera is still shaking.
    I tried with Bentley GT3 at Sebring, with VR headset. I get dizzy after 30s just driving out of the pit stop.
    I do the same in Assetto Corsa with Camera Lock To Horizon, or AMS2 Camera World Motion to 100%, or Race Room Pitch Lag to 100%, or iRacing Pitch Chassis to 0%, ACC Camera Lock To World 100%.
    And I have no problem, no issue, I can drive hours without getting sick at all.
    Only in rFactor2 I cannot use the game I paid because there's no full stabilization of the camera.
    Please add an option for, Camera Stabilization : Full, or a separate true Lock To Horizon, that lock the pitch and the roll to the world horizon.
    I am game dev myself ( NFS Porsche, Test Drive Unlimited , The Crew ) and it will take max 2h to code, and 1/2 day to test/debug.
    All the racing sim out there understood the need for this option for VR except rFactor2 .
    Please pretty please, add this, I would like to be able to enjoy/use the sim I paid for.

    Best regards from a fellow racing game dev.
    Sebastien Tixier. ( the guy who coded Real Head Motion for rFactor 1-2 and AC-ACC ).
     
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  2. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    Hi.
    When the horizon stabilization was implemented in rF2, several users asked for this, and the devs answered that they didn't want to lock the horizon totally, that this was made in this way on purpose.
    I don't know if they think in a different way nowadays.
     
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  3. magicfr

    magicfr Registered

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    Well if the devs are reading this, I paid for the game and I cannot play it , so please reconsider, Thank you :)
    Maybe they should ask themselves why ALL the other sims are doing it.
    Best Regards,
    Seb
     
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  4. magicfr

    magicfr Registered

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    I actually paid the game TWICE.
    I bought it at the release when it was still owned by ISI.
    Then last year I wanted to test it again, but lost my serial number so I bought it again on steam.
    Would be nice to have so feedback about this issue from the devs.
    Best Regards,
    Seb
     
  5. Kahel

    Kahel Registered

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    +1

    Not a VR user myself... but surprised i don't see more complain about this one...

    Ps: just saw lagg comment... I hope the dev reconsider... at least put an option on config files for advanced users.
     
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  6. magicfr

    magicfr Registered

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    shameless bump until I get a dev to read/reply. I paid for this game.
     
  7. magicfr

    magicfr Registered

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  8. magicfr

    magicfr Registered

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    There's a new patch, but still nothing to get full camera stabilization, please add it devs, thanks.
     
  9. Dirtnz

    Dirtnz Registered

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    Might be a stupid question but have you completely removed the head physics option in the controls menu??

    I personally run VR and have no camera shake at all unless I crank the head physics up.
     
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  10. Paul Jeffrey

    Paul Jeffrey

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    @magicfr as @Dirtnz says above, please try and remove head physics from the game calibration options and see if that is something that resolves the issue and report back.

    This isn't an issue we've seen much from the community, and we also have VR testing internally where this apparently hasn't come up, so it would be interesting to hear your take.

    Hopefully the above suggestion solves the situation for you, but please let us know.
     
  11. magicfr

    magicfr Registered

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    yeah I already tried all the camera/head options on and off, .ini shenanigans.
    The things is , every person as a different sensibility to motion sickness, it's also depends on what car/track combo you are using, obvisouly if you try a car with soft suspension at barcelona, the camera will not shake, but a stiff car at sebring, it's just horrible for me.

    The thing I ask is not something complicated, it's just improving something already existing.
    Maybe the dev should ask themselves why ALL other sims allows to have a full stabilization, when rF2 don't , they certainly don't do it for fun... I will answer for them, because there's a lot of people out there who need this to reduce/stop motion sickness.
     
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  12. Kahel

    Kahel Registered

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    Took 3 'bumps'... but you've finally been noticed. :)
     
  13. Paul Jeffrey

    Paul Jeffrey

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    Ok thanks for the feedback @magicfr - this has been added into the ongoing document of bugs / suggestions for future review.

    Many thanks,
    Paul
     
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  14. magicfr

    magicfr Registered

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    Thanks a lot @Paul Jeffrey , I really love rF2 , always did, I think tire model and FFB are the best there, and the latest content looks very good, every time there's a patch I try to drive again, I even tried to force myself driving with the motion sickness trying to get used to it, but I just can't if I try too long, the dizziness change into headache. And like said before, only rFactor2 is doing that for me.
    So I will try to be patient and hope I can drive rF2 again soon.
    Best Regards,
    Seb
     
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  15. Daz Bike

    Daz Bike Registered

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    Thanks magicfr, I feel exactly the same way as you.

    Rfactor 2 is better than the other sims that have full horizon lock but right now the other sims drive better due to being able to fully lock the horizon. Often you don't know what your missing until you experience it and 100% locked horizon is one of those features that will be a game changer playing Rfactor 2 for a lot of people.

    Lets hope this gets some traction with the developers to be added/updated soon.
     
  16. magicfr

    magicfr Registered

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    for VR I 100% agree , 100% lock to world horizon feel the more natural.
    For monitor and triple screen , I think my solution in Real Head Motion is better, it's not 100% lock to horizon, but lock to the track "visual" horizon at it follow the track slope, so if you have a big slope , like some place at the Nordshleife it act better that lock to world horizon.
     
  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Can you explain that? In previous discussions about this people have said the same (full lock to horizon would be good for VR) but I've never understood why you'd want to tilt your head up and down to match the current track angle - unless you have a motion rig doing real angles and the sensors are off-board, obviously.
     
  18. magicfr

    magicfr Registered

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    Not sure what you are asking exactly so I will explain 2 things

    Lock to horizon vs lock to track angle ( with smoothing ):
    In a real car your eyes will focus on something, and your inner ear will stabilize your vision based on what vibration and bump its feeling , so you can stay focus on what you are looking at. If you are a passenger, and look at the dashboard, you will have the dashboard not moving, and the world around you shaking ( you can get motion sickness doing that tho' ).
    If you are a driver what are you focusing on ? the track, so ideally the best system will not lock to horizon but lock to the track horizon.
    Now in VR if you lock to world horizon, you can freely move your head in up down left right with the headset, so it's ok , you can just look up.. it works, and it's not feeling weird because your head is not moving/rotating with the car.
    On a monitor , you cannot move the head up so if you lock to world horizon, when your car is at the bottom of a slope ( Spa Radililon for example ), well you will see nothing, just the bottom of the slope, where in reality you would look at ahead , the top of the hill.
    Hope I explained correctly.

    About motion sickness:
    I already explained on my RHM web site : https://sites.google.com/site/mididrumcoverpartner/rfactor2-realheadmotion-plugin
    in short, if what you see is incoherent with what you are inner ear is feeling you get motion sickness.
    Original motion sickness, is feeling motion ( being in a boat or a car ) , without seeing the motion , if you are in a cabin, or reading a book i , watching a movie on tablet, in the car.
    In simracing it's the opposite, you see ONLY motion, in VR, or projector screen, triple screen, but you don't feel any motion ( you are seating in a chair ) -> motion sickness.
    Notes that it's a recent issue because before, monitor where too small , so your vision was mostly seeing not moving things. But nowadays we have big UW monitor, triple screen that take 80% of your vision, or VR that take 100% of your vision.

    Cheers
     
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  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I'll explain the question more. I understand everything you've said though, and it makes sense.

    In the plugins section I also have a very simple camera stabilisation plugin, using the vehicle orientation as the input and smoothing that to arrive at a target camera orientation. Much like the stabilise horizon, but a stronger version.

    As you know, this doesn't work with VR as camera movement controls are disabled.

    By varying the time (history) the plugin operated with, I was able to find a good balance between "still shaking" and "lagging".

    While playing with that, I made it do a full lock to horizon to see if I could remove some jitter (I couldn't) and while driving with that I had exactly the experience you describe - get to T2 at Bathurst and can't see where you're going. Same on the way back down the mountain.

    Now, the question: why would you want the full lock in VR (meaning you sit there with the wheel in front of you, and have to tilt your head up when driving uphill, and tilt down towards your lap when driving downhill), when instead you can have a Stabilise Horizon: Very High setting and just keep your head straight like in real life?

    On a screen you don't want lock to horizon because you can't see up or down hills. Why is lock to car/track (with sufficient smoothing - more than the current game settings) not good for VR?

    Or is it just that the current limited stabilisation is causing issues?
     
  20. magicfr

    magicfr Registered

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    Like said in this thread.
    I tested Stabilize Horizon High, and what I am looking at : the track/world, is still shaking, making me dizzy and after only 30-60s I can't drive anymore. I use only VR, on a monitor the image you are seeing is taking a way smaller percentage of your whole FOV so you may not see it.
    Whatever you call it, Very High/ Lock to horizon... What I need is when I drive, whatever the bumps there's on the road, the pitch/roll of the camera should stay completely still, because that's what is happening IRL, the inner ear will completely nullify ANY bump vibration so my view is perfectly stable looking at the track.
    The easiest way to do this, as a quick fix, is to have the base of VR rotation coordinate to be the world, completely lock to world horizon, that's what AC is doing.
    A better way to do it , what I am doing in Real Head Motion, is I take the local pitch/roll of the car in world coordinate, and I smooth them over time, and I use those as my base for the camera rotation, it's not the car anymore. and the way it works, if you smooth to 100%, it become like lock to the world, if you smooth to 0%, then it is lock to the car, and you have all the variation in between.
    I would gladly give my RHM code to the devs if they want it.
     

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