Do You Think The Development Curve Of Other Sims Like AMS2 Is Good For RF2?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Paul McC, Jun 23, 2021.

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Do You Think The Development Curve Of Other Sims Like AMS2 Is Good For RF2?

  1. yes

  2. no

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  1. Paul McC

    Paul McC Registered

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    As a long term user of RF2 (since the begining really) and now a long term user of AMS2 and others like ACC etc, im wondering. Are people optomistic about the future of RF2? Also do you think the steep development curve of other sims (in particular AMS2) could actually be a good thing for RF2?

    Over the last half of last year and the first half of this year I have noticed the development of RF2 start to accelerate, not just new content, but more frequent updates to older content and things like Global A.I. updates being mentioned in dev reports and updates. Also the recent take over by motorsport UK.

    I used to spend all my time in this sim, now, not so much, but im looking to spend more time with it again as when its working right I still can have a fantastic time, also lets not forget it was this sim that was used for one of the most exciting and historic events (Virtual 24hrs Of Le Mans) back in 2020.

    Do you think the competition from other sims with a fast dev curve may be possibly spuring on S397's development of RF2, maybe not, maybe you completely dissagree?

    I made this video yesterday in which I go more into depth about why im asking this question, so feel free to watch if you've got the time.

    Its just an idea, and more of a question for the community.
     
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  2. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Hey! Good post!

    Got to start by saying that indeed it is a positive thing that the competition is "ON!". That is true for every simulator, not only RF2, of course. RF2 devs have been under big scrutiny lately to be honest and people have been adamant about the sim needing faster development and adressing long standing issues while also adding new features and finishing incomplete ones.
    The Devs do and did need to adavance moslty the graphics side of things to attract more players and on the thecnical side of things like physics and other systems, they are still in need of refining those because some players might actually not be so impressed as they once were with it.

    All in all I wish that RF2 can reach a position where many more people play it, there just needs to be something else to make people want to make this their main sim - as for me it still is more advanced and realistic then other sims on the market, but not on everything...

    About AMS2 I have to say that I tested it today for some time and I loved to see some cars have no trace of bounciness and it gives me hope about Madness Engine. I know that you did enter some of the discussion about Lift off oversteer and this is the main issue I found and also has been echoed by Jimmy Broadbent in his last video, although he didn't refer to it directly.

    There seems to be some backwardness to AMS off throttle behavior. Instead of Lift off Oversteer in the cars I tried, I actually get lift off understeer... Jimmy said that you can actually get off understeer by going on throttle... That's where it's backwards. When on throthle the car seems to turn more then when trying to coast it, and when one is used to drive by going off throthle much more on corners to turn more (trail braking), one gets understeer instead. Then, when on throtle again, one regains grip on the front tires -wich makes no sense - making it feel totally simcade and with good reasons... That's totally unrealistic.
     
  3. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Was just giving the GTEs another drive and forget it, Reiza has decoded the Madness engine. It's actually working naturally. The DPi I don't like and turns to much on throtle, but this GTEs, particularly the BMW, is on par with RF2 to be honest. FFB also is great on this, as there is no trace of wobbly suspension and they feel as they should, quite rigid but nimble and agile!

    CR8 feels like a mid engine car too. Very happy!

    The Sigma P1... the Sigma...
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2021
  4. instinkt

    instinkt Registered

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    they getting much more from pricey DLCs than from base game so?
     
  5. Pales

    Pales Registered

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    Studio 397 took over rFactor 2 in 2016. It is now 2021, with 2022 fast approaching. To put things into perspective, we haven't had a single change made to the AI in all of those years. In fact, the behaviour has actually regressed, but most people don't realise it.

    We still have the following issues which are completely and utterly unacceptable for a game that is based on racing:

    - The AI are unable to slip stream on straight roads (fast classes typically get stuck behind slower classes and break every 0.5ms rather than attempt an overtake). This is particularly noticeable on tracks like Leman, or anything for that matter which has straight roads. Has been acknowledged countless times but 'priorities' keep changing.

    - If the AI intends to pit during a race, the current logic does not allow for them to overtake. This means that a faster class will be stuck behind a slower class all round the circuit until they reach the pits. Again, acknowledged countless times but 'priorities' mean it is not considered important. Basically means that you're forced to turn off fuel usage and tyre usage in a race.

    - The AI have erratic throttle and breaking that was introduced as a result of Build: 1110 in 2018. Was never tested, the issue was reported on the same day it was released but it hasn't been fixed. This causes differences in speed and timings (so yes, something as significant as that has been left) as well as an obnoxious ear bleed. Again, acknowledged but they haven't fixed there own mess from all those years ago.

    - AI during wet weather pit repeatedly each lap. Another bug that was introduced by Studio 397 but has not been fixed. Again, acknowledged after they broke it but never been fixed.

    - Full Course Yellows are completely broken and this has also been acknowledged and never fixed.

    As you can see, it paints a perfect picture of the current game for offline play. Not doubt graphically they're progressing well, and I can see that the UI is improving but they're so reluctant to touch any of the AI. It has always been excuses and given that they haven't even rectified there own coding errors, I imagine anything else is completely out of the question.
     
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  6. instinkt

    instinkt Registered

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    they are, but they are still pricey compared to other titles excluding iceRacing
    releasing new game in simracing niche not gonna make milions for any studio anyway so it is what it it
     
  7. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    The main fact is rF2 FFB/physics are better than AMS 2 will be, even in 10 years, end of debate.

    S397 has taken rF2 at the end of 2016, Reiza has started to work on AMS 2 in 2017....
    Finally rF2 developpement is far better in every parts.
    ASM 2 is casual, tell me when the pro drivers like Verstappen, Norris and many more will use it....AMS 2 is arcade compared to rF2 and iRacing.

    https://steamcharts.com/app/1066890#1m
    Here you can see the "Hype" for the last update is gone as fast it has been arrived....
    AMShit 2 is the real name, the most funny is the custom FFB they've name rFuktor, but it's not even closed to the king, it's more rFuked...
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  8. Pales

    Pales Registered

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    rFactor 2 has arguably the best force feedback of any sim, but given the lack of features available for both offline and online, that's not going to make up for it.
     
  9. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    rf2 online and offline will improve, it's announced.
    Even with hotlap, I prefer rF2, the rail feeling with AMS2 and GTE is a joke for a rF2 hardcore user.
     
  10. Pales

    Pales Registered

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    No doubt it will improve, yes. My point still stands about offline, though. Studio 397 are very much a 'it's on our do list' type, and I am still seeing things promised from 2017 on that list now..
     
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  11. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

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    I do not understand your position, rFactor 2 will improve instead Automobilista will not improve.
     
  12. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    I mean AMS2 won't change physics and FFB radically.....even in 2 years....the max level of AMS2 will always be inferior to rF2....the match rF2 vs AMS2 was won at the begining by rF2. AMS2 is casual, it's for the perfect example of the casual definition. in AMS2 with GTE, for example, I push the throttle at max every time, then I switch to rF2, I do same, I crash in the first turn....I say casual but my feeling is arcade.
     
  13. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Fanboy! I understand fanboy for RF2 but being so negative to AMS2 by the progess that has been made and how much Reiza (small team) has achieved with the madness engine is very promising. AMS2 is not arcade, it just has some weird physics systems that Reiza has been trying to nail and some cars feel pretty good, even if not as good as RF2 is no way Arcade anymore, just had a ton of quirks being solved.
     
  14. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    AMS 2 is arcade, the GT3, GT3 cup car GTE, DPI are arcade, you push the throttle everytime without control, in rF2 if you do the same, you crash at the first turn, and in every turn, it's the ultimate sim. Some say casual, I say arcade, it's just a word to describe the feeling.
     
  15. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I wish more sucess to RF2 then to AMS2, but you are really being annoying. I showed you a video where the Porsche GT3 is very close to what RF2 offers... cornering and slip angles, and after some stiffening of the suspensions, they feel even closer. FFB is pretty good now, even if not as good as RF2.
     
  16. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    DPi is total garbage that I agree... GT3 I can now make them wheel spin, not like they were before with the differential problems... It's not as hardcore but it's pretty good right now. Don't throw around things that are just too extreme for a game you don't like.
     
  17. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    the PORSCHE in AMS2 is on rail, I dont need the video, I have the BOTH games...every time I play AMS2, I get bored to full press the throttle every time, and when I come back to rF2, I drive like a noob, I crash in every turns, cause it's hardcore throttle control, and I have to re-learn everything....
     
  18. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Check if you have Traction control correctly set up. I drove them back to back and I didn't have any issue at all... RF2 being proabably at TC level 1. I don't know, they're not the same, but they are very close and to be close it can't be arcade, even if some more wheel spin should be present. Some cars in AMS2 don't have any problem wheel spinning though. Compared to how it was - even have videos of GT4 cars - the cars didn't spin out on power and they do now, and why I say Reiza is on the right path and deserve more then being called trashed and fucked.
     
  19. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    i have NO TC NO ABS, it's just that AMS 2 is arcade, even ACC with NO TC it's hardcore....and AMS 2 is not closed to rF2 at all. AMS 2 is closed to Project cars 2. It's not the good place to praise AMS2, it's here https://forum.reizastudios.com, here it's rF2, with throttle control, with hardcore feeling.
     
  20. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    It is... lots of simillar handling charactheristics on the Porsche I assure you. I drove them pretty much the same way jumping from a sim to another. Maybe I wasn't trying to provoke wheel spin enough and that might be too easy to control in AMS2 still, but apart from that it is close!
     

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