Shift protection

Discussion in 'Wish Lists' started by Remco Majoor, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    TL;DR: My car died, need shift protection.

    IRL they have it for a reason, we need it in rF2 as well. Engines are very fragile in rF2 and you have no idea if you are wearing the engine because of over revving since rF2 doesn't let you know the engine wear after a practice stint.

    They have it IRL, and it's not something that should be hard to implement. Then again, this is rF2 we are talking about.

    Edit: Also let me add that it also helps against unrealistic engine braking
     
  2. FORMULAEFAN71

    FORMULAEFAN71 Registered

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    I like when my gearbox blows up.
    EDIT: never mind just blew my engine up at a hot lap of lemans lol. Yeah I wish for protection too!
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
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  3. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    So, quite a few engines dead atm in VEC 24H. We need downshift protection
     
  4. Brutten

    Brutten Registered

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    Hello.
    You might want to investigate the following line in the player.json file:
    "Repeat Shifts#":"0 = no repeat shift detection, 1 = detect and eliminate accidental repeat shifts within 100ms, 2 = 150ms, 3 = 200ms, 4 = 250ms, 5 = prevent shifting again before previous shift is completed",
     
  5. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    Which does not prevent downshifting when it should not be possible yet. It only prevents double downshifts.

    But hey, good news, Today on the VEC stream Marcel confirmed finally that downshift protection is in the works. This means no accidental double downshifts, no overrevving under downshifts, no downshift exploiting during qualy runs, and maybe this will prevent accidental go to neutral and then to first gear too.
     
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  6. Brutten

    Brutten Registered

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    Preventing it from going into neutral when downshifting is also possible under the current conditions offered by rF2.
    On the other hand, if you set the parameter I mentioned earlier to value 5 (prevent shifting again before previous shift is completed") and adjust the parameter so that the gearbox does not shift into neutral and reverse when downshifting, that would be sufficient.
    Perhaps I misunderstood your problem. I am sorry for that.
     
  7. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    You totally did, but no worries. There should be a fix coming soon for everything
     
  8. atomed

    atomed Member

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    What he meant was downshifting once even if it could damage the engine because of excessive rpms.
     
  9. Brutten

    Brutten Registered

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    Then try the options I have referred to.
    By setting Repeat Shifts to 5 the gearbox will not shift (up or down) until it is ready to accept the new gear.
    This doesn't guarantee that you won't over-rev when downshifting, but it minimises the chance of this happening.
    When you set the clutch to a button, the neutral position does not engage when downshifting. For the same reason, it is also not possible to downshift into reverse, two of the situations that cause engine breakage.
     
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  10. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Registered

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    Just wanted to share something with you, I did not have time to test it in rF2 but I discovered something in an older gMotor title.

    I just discovered that if you assign a button to Neutral, it won't left you downshift to N from 1 or upshift from R to N. And, that's how it is IRL with some sequentially shifted cars, to me details like that is gold :) Not knowing this for years is one of my life's regrets :D Try it out ;)
     
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  11. Coutie

    Coutie Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, it's like that in rf2 as well.
     
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  12. Bill Worrel

    Bill Worrel Registered

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    I don't think that prevents you from shifting into neutral by selecting up shift and down shift at the same time. And if you do that you will tend to up shift to 1st which could over rev the engine instead of engaging the clutch and up shifting to the appropriate gear.
     
  13. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Registered

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    Killing engine on going to 1 happened, but only while trying things, not during actual use. Do you happen to know what is IRL behavior? Does overrev protection also works "up"?

    Also, in some games you can't get to N if car is moving, is that how some sequentially shifted cars are?
     
  14. Bill Worrel

    Bill Worrel Registered

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    I think the only way to shift into neutral is to select the neutral button maybe when at low RPM or when the car isn't moving or maybe that was to shift into reverse. And it's probably different for different cars. But yeah I don't really know, I'm just going by what I've heard on race broadcasts.
     
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  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Downshift protection is a car electronics feature, just like a rev limiter is but obviously working in the opposite direction.

    The options you're talking about are useful, but they aren't the same. I'm pretty sure you understand that already, but I'm also pretty sure people like Remco already know about those options - the wish for downshift protection is very specific.
     
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  16. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I have used the double paddle pull to find neutral eversince rF1 and GTR2.(who knows maybe earlier) With this method you cannot rapidly shift all the way to reverse, nor can you hit neutral because you pulled the downshift padde too many times.

    The key is to clear out all the inputs for gears 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, & R. Assign a key for neutral.(not a button but a key, you will not use the key with this method, it just needs to be assigned for the process to function) After clearing out all the gear inputs except neutral, assign one paddle for upshifts, the other for downshifts. Then you can only downshift with the single downshift paddle to 1st gear, repeated pulling after you have reached 1st gear does nothing. (PLEASE NOTE: THIS DOES NOT PROTECT YOUR ENGINE OR GEARBOX FROM RAPID DOWNSHIFTING)
    If, at some point, you want to engage reverse, there is a 2 step process. Pull both paddles simultaneously to reach Neutral. Then the downshift paddle alone to move from neutral to reverse. If you have the clutch assigned to a pedal, then make sure you press down on the clutch pedal before snicking into reverse. I suppose a user could pull both handles for neutral and then in a panic pull the upshift which would engage 1st. I have never had that happen, but I'm guessing is has to someone. The Clutch Pedal is our friend.

    As far as downshift protection: Isn't it already there? If you downshift too quickly or at too high of an rpm, the gearbox/engine eventually will fail. This is how it should be. Abuse the box and it will bite you. I know there is a-lot of features missing from the transmission module, but over-revving destroys an engine, running too hot destroys the engine. Poor downshifting destroys the transmission or engine. We suffer, but we learn.

    When the Oreca's first came out, I joined an online race with a mandatory pitstop. I kept revving the engine during the service and pulled away once everything was done. I made it about 2 corners past the pit out when the engine expired. Lesson learned, with no air cooling the radiators, revving in the pits will cook your engine. About 3 or 4 other drivers suffered the same fate. a couple of them Even AFTER we warned on the chat to shut down during the stop. So while DNFing is painful, it is a learning experience on how to treat a transmission or engine.
    Would this 'protection' come in the form of a time delay between shifts?(What you were trying to explain to a poster above) Because if we just get code that protects the moving parts from abuse, then fast mover exploiters will copy f1 in the Schumacher years and shift from 7th to 1st with just one click.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
  17. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    A lot of real life racing cars have downshift protection. This means that if you want to shift down into a gear that will take the revs too high, it will simply reject that. This is to protect the engine, and for sim racing it means it avoids some exploiting as well as a bonus.
     
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  18. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    Indeed many do, some with throttle by wire also control rev match for a dry shift, some only allow the shift to take place when the engine is physically within a range where it won't miss the gear, most of these electronic systems also prevent downshift overrevs.

    An "Engine Clock" is a feature I've wanted since rF1; I was reminded of that with F1 86 SE.

    I would imagine a script could be written although not sure if that would work with encrypted files.
     
  19. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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  20. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Registered

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