Would like to reduce the "arcade game" feel to steering response

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Andrew Nagy, May 22, 2021.

  1. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    What we generally mean by the wheel rotation matching is: Does the wheel shown on the screen match the rotation of your physical wheel? So if you turn the Fanatec wheel to the 2 O:clock position, does your virtual wheel shown onscreen match the same angle? As long as the two wheels are in sync, motion wise, that means your input to the physical wheel is matching what the virtual wheel is transmitting to the virtual car.
     
  2. Daniele Vidimari

    Daniele Vidimari Registered

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    True, for my experience though is more related to the heat rather than pressure, still it's one of the few cars that start driving better from the 2nd/3rd lap.

    @Lazza Yes i made a generalization indeed, for sure there are mods that got this right, but what i described is the case of basically every official S397 content and many mods released in the latest years.
    Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but the Nissan GT500 was made by ISI, then finished and published for free by S397 during the first months after the take-over.
     
  3. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    Thanks, Dave - I appreciate your clarifying that. I'm sure this is completely obvious to everybody else here - sigh... I feel like a permanent newbie sometimes...
     
  4. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    Hi Sushi - I changed my wheel's settings to the values you recommended, and it made a huge difference in the steering feel. Before, I always thought it was too light, and I never felt a whole lot of feedback, which I thought was odd for a direct drive wheel, but it's the only wheel I've ever used, so I don't have anything to compare it to.

    After moving to your recommendations, the steering effort is MUCH greater (like going from power to manual steering), with a lot more feedback from the road, but I would say it's a little too much, and it has what I would describe as an excessively "gritty" feel when I turn the wheel. So something between how it was before, and how it is now, would be optimal. Of the various settings, which ones would you recommend as being most effective at slightly toning down the level of effort and feedback, and smoothing out the feel? I know, I could just play around with it, but there are a lot of knobs, so some guidance from someone with more experience like you would speed up the process of getting to the "right" level of steering feel. Thanks very much.
     
  5. sushi

    sushi Registered

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    Hi Andrew,
    great that it helps you.
    Yes, the granular, hard FFB with small and larger peaks is sometimes a bit too much. In my opinion, the best adjustment screws are the following settings:
    In game: smoothing, some cars can use higher settings, e.g. the original historical formula vehicles, because the FFB is very detailed and sometimes a bit pointed (for me 5-10), but also depends on the surface structure of the racetrack. The S397 GT3 cars need less smoothing, as I generally feel fewer details through the tires and the steering in these vehicles (for me 1-2). Very rough, simplified classification: modern cars lower, older cars higher smoothing.
    In device driver: FEI and INT: I try to keep the FEI as high as possible, at least 90, if it is still too harsh I try a little more INT or more smoothing.
    My personal starting values for new vehicles are mostly:
    Smoothing 2-4 -> less is more direct, don't go over 10.
    FEI 100 -> less degrades the details, not less than 90.
    INT 4 -> higher smooths the FFB, do not go above 6.
    If it is still a bit restless and/or grainy, you can still try to go a bit higher with NDP, which creates a bit of calm and sluggishness in the steering wheel.
    Note that these are all my personal preferences. You have to try it yourself. Have fun trying and testing.
     
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  6. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Ya gotta crawl before you can walk. & Lord knows I stopped progressing long before jogging....!
     
  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Walking is best. Do at least 10K steps every day.
     
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  8. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    Thanks - that summary should speed up the process of finding a good compromise to give the optimal level of effort, smoothness, and feedback.
     
  9. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    Aha! MAJOR discrepancy: There is a HUGE difference in the number of degrees I turn the wheel on my rig and the number of degrees the virtual wheel turns. Moving the real wheel barely to the 10:00 o'clock position causes the virtual wheel to turn a full 180 degrees. This goes a long way toward explaining why the sim car's steering feels so hyper-sensitive.

    Here are my current steering calibration settings:
    upload_2021-5-26_17-43-30.png

    Here are my Fanatec steering tuning menu settings:
    upload_2021-5-26_17-48-4.png

    The Steering Wheel Range in the Race Setup menu is 360 degrees.
    OK, so how do I get the wheel rotations to match? Thanks - hoping this is the "magic bullet"...
     
  10. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Well that only took 4 pages.

    Good luck.
     
  11. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    I figured you'd point that out...
     
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  12. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I wasn't the first responder in this thread.

    @Nieubermesch good to see you following along.
     
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  13. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Well, it's still odd that by your observations the outlap is remarkably different from follwoing laps, but I hope it helps.

    I'm myself trying to rule out some of the observations that some people pointed out about pressures to see if they hold validity or not and if better times can be made by cold tires with lower pressure or not.

    Not sure if it will be the magic bullet or not but it can definetly help although there seems to be a missing explanation for the backward feeling you were experiencing.
     
  14. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    I definitely deserve any razzing that's coming to me, given that this was the very first thing that was recommended to be checked. How embarrassing. But anyway, what settings do I have to change to get the steering response in the game to match the wheel's physical input?
     
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  15. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Ahaha, oh well, I actually got my curiosity aroused with the pressure things again but I really would like to put that to the test. You've made me more self ware to not post so much, so I just hit like a lot... :D:D
     
  16. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    I agree that the discrepancy between the virtual steering wheel response and the physical wheel input doesn't explain all of my symptoms, but fixing it should go a very long way toward matching the steering feel of the sim to that of the real car.
     
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  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    :p

    @Andrew Nagy best to let someone with the same wheel as you confirm how they set theirs up to get the correct rotation (should happen automatically with the right settings).

    I'd like to get further information on the car you're using though, because it's not impossible the steering wheel rotation in the car itself is incorrect.

    Bearing in mind the car may not be "legal" it's best not to link directly to it here, but if you have information on where you got it you can perhaps share that with someone here privately for them to check. I'd again suggest someone with the same wheel just to keep things simple.

    @sushi gave you recommended settings above and indicated that ticking "vehicle set" will work (making your steering rotation correct), perhaps you can start by rechecking your settings against his and confirming whether it works.
     
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  18. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Andrew Nagy Just to be clearer on what I mean there - if you pick a different car, like the karts (they come with the game) when you go to a track the Settings -> Calibrate screen should show you the car's steering rotation when "vehicle set" is ticked. In the karts it's only 204 degrees if I remember correctly.

    If your wheel is configured correctly, even sitting in the garage you should find your wheel only rotates that much before it "stops". That's 102 degrees each way, so a little over a quarter turn.

    Repeat the same test with another car, probably a tintop like the Nissan GT3, it'll have more like 6-700 degrees lock and that should be reflected by how much your wheel turns when in that car.

    If not, that's something to focus on. Forget car setups at this point.
     
  19. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I decided to check Motec using a GTE car - surely a car one could include in the S397 recently developed cars. From some reports here that lower pressures beats warmer tires - and hence higher pressures - in this car particular car (other GTE have same tires so same thing I guess) the max G's do increase until they start to degrade again, around the second lap... Now, that can for sure say something about how little time the soft tires will mantain their peak grip, but Spa is also a long track... From Michelin comments I guess that follows that trend there.

    Also, I used 160Kpa from start, not lowest but that shouldn't make a difference, since it's about lower pressures always giving better results, even in cold tires.
     

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  20. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I'm a bit puzzled that after so much time, we discover that probably your hardware is still not yet setup correctly, but what is more surprising is that despite this, you have been able to improve your real world driving anyway.
     

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