Formula E tire temps

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nieubermesch, May 16, 2021.

  1. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Whats up with front tire temps in this cars? They barely reach 40 degrees (by reaching I mean, being stable there, not sliding them and getting them hot... obviously).

    What am I missing?
     
  2. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Why do they should heat up if you don't give them a reason to?
     
  3. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Well, how long should it take? I am genuinely asking as it's the only car I remember being like this and I actually enjoy the FE cars although I found it strange.
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I don't know any FE tracks so I jumped on the Nurb GP track and within 3 corners I had the fronts above 50, and after a timed lap all 4 tyres were 50+ at the end of the pit straight. Maybe you just aren't pushing enough?

    @Nieubermesch something I forgot to mention as well, although the F-E cars look very racy, they don't have very much downforce in comparison to some other open wheel cars. So the energy being put through the tyres is lower. Then the F-E tracks are... well... I'm not a fan. But I imagine with enough laps you can find a rhythm and maybe keep the tyres closer to the limits.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
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  5. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I went with the FE 2019 at Rome wich actually have some higher load/speed corners. The tires are the same for the 3 versions/years right?

    Wasn't actually the first time I noticed I couldn't get much heat into them, but I think I went maybe once or twice at non FE tracks.

    Need to check more I guess.

    Thanks for the replies.
     
  6. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Well, I did some more laps at Spa and I did got them to around 55'ish, but they still are not as high as other cars, that normally stay around 60'ish after driving them at least at a pace of AI at 100% (ex: Porshe RSR, AM GTE... etc).

    I also swapped tires on those GTE's to hard compound to rule out FE using also a more durable compound and I still got around the same values for the temps as the softest one, so it couldn't just be that and also FE tires wear as fast as soft michelin tires from GTE's.

    I went online and read optimal tire pressures should be around 70-95 on this FE tires (seems to be pretty much the same as other slick race tires) and it just might be something about newest models from S397 that aren't heating well enough I guess... I mean, I am pushing hard and they seem to lose that increased temperature in high loads apparently too quickly (I would guess, from some observation and other sims).

    Marcel mentioned a new model for tire temperatures, but it was 5 months ago or so. Hope it's on the way for many cars. They probably are actually doing the work behind the scenes and it's taken some time? I hope it's that and maybe they have a closed beta testing team ;)
     
  7. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Nieubermesch what?

    Barely reach 40, now 55, let's compare to completely different tyres, found some online figures (great idea!) and they're higher (might reach them during cornering, no?), guess newest S397 models aren't heating well enough (uh huh) and lose temp too quickly IMHO (uh huh). Marcel mentioned new tyre temp model (he did? I remember talk of track temp having an effect... not sure about a whole new model) so where's that? Hope they fix all the other cars too!

    These types of posts smack of confirmation bias to me. Heard there are physics issues? Here's something that doesn't seem right - when will it be fixed?

    I mean, you literally started a thread saying the tyres barely reach 40, then it's 55 after actually driving the cars for more than 5 mins. Heard of "the boy who cried 'wolf!'"? You'll get more attention and respect (and potentially answers) if you do some work to verify an issue before you post about it, instead of going off half-cocked all the time.

    Have you looked through a TGM file and gained some understanding of what's already in there?

    Sorry for the rant, but come on - put some effort in.
     
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  8. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Hum, well deserved for the part that I actually didn't put a lot of time before posting about FE temperatures, but I am not sure what you mean... They still have an issue heating up... I meant 55'ish being generous actually, between 50/55 so I gave it a rough idea of a mean.
    I'm pretty sure optimal tire temps aren't a top secret thing that people online can't get a quite good number, but whatever. Well, you actually gave me a good point and I am honestly humbled by recognized that maybe what matters is temps reached during high loads? I was probably under the pretence that those figures one see for optimal temps would be to reach around say 70 at least and stay under 100, depending on corners of course. But still, why are they struggling to heat more then some other cars?

    I'll need to search for that on that long thread from months ago, but I had the idea that it was related to tires, but maybe I misread it..

    There's another point to consider, is that those temps were reached at a non FE track... Don't forget that, because in that case it's not the first time I observed that tires aren't quite getting high enough. Maybe it needs more than say, 5 laps? Because I've done at Rome and its relatively long and they weren't reaching "base" values much different from 40ish.

    There are older cars that reach higher temps easily, so if it's model, parameters... you name it! It's not only me saying this and they also find it odd and I am sure many people who've commented knew more of what they were talking about then me. It might seem I am trying to find flaws everywhere, but even if that was true (a little bit maybe) it's really about hopefully bringing attention to them and fix most of what can be fix. Some aspects just feel not so hard to fix and I am unhappy they have to stay around :(
     
  9. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Also, the tone of this thread was to actually find out more about the reason for them being lower and someone could actually help, but now that it was taken the wrong way...
     
  10. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    No, I actually meant good idea - I wasn't being sarcastic. You could have done that before creating the thread though.

    I already mentioned relatively low aero (the cars are 900kg with the driver, so not heavy either), and tracks. But I'm finding there's this expectation to prove the game is correct when people question it, when there should be just as much emphasis (or even more) on proving that it's not. That's a general comment, not just directed at you.

    You mean the changes? I believe there was mention of changing track temp affecting tyres, so it's tyre related.

    As above, I don't need to. My focus right now is if there IS an issue - one car might run tyres at a different temp to another car. Who's to say? That's why you would research it.

    I'm not even saying there's nothing wrong. The point is you can't just "guess" at issues - it's not productive.
     
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  11. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yeah, you're right. I went and looked more at tire heat dissipation and everything and there might be some misconceptions I had that I thought were right and not needing verification (I was wrong). Although I did some guessing, in this specific post I really started it to see what was causing it other then just bad simulation.

    So, just to confirm and I already saw that tires even after reaching a higher and more stable core temperature, still get surface temps quickly down, more then I expected (other sim might have thought me wrong too...). Well, to confirm that ideal tire temps of say, 70/90 are actually when cornering and not a range to get into and try to stay at, right? Really should have done some homework before. I don't think although it's the first time I see people mentioning tire temps not going high enough so I think according to that and other experiences I assimilated that... My bad and well, I am happy that's one less thing to worry about when overthinking RF2 physics (with a fragmented knowledge of physics :confused:).

    Also sorry, I thought you were mocking me for looking at internet. I actually saw other post saying they actually (FE drivers) have more difficulties with tire temps! Ups! Guess it's solved, and if anything since I didn't saw much about FE (not many driving them I guess) someone will find this thread ;)
     
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  12. CRMS

    CRMS Registered

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    I was driving FE at Cote d'Azur/Monaco and the temps 22C when left pits. 55 - 65C after a few laps. I haven't tried on a FE circuit.

    "In most series, tyres have an optimum temperature window of around 70-95 degrees Celsius, which is when they operate most effectively. We don’t have too much data during a Formula E race weekend, but the operating window of our tyres is a lot lower than that."

    https://alexandersims.com/formula-e-is-the-most-difficult-formula-in-motorsport/

    The cars are skittish though and understeer madly.
     
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  13. kiko0602

    kiko0602 Registered

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  14. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Thanks for the video.
     
  15. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    Do you talk about surface temps or rubber layer temps? Or carcass temps?
     
  16. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Surface temps. I don't really have Motec or anything. Need to change that! Sorry for the late response.
     
  17. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    yes but optimum tire temps published are for rubber layer, or maybe it matches even more rf2 carcass. So why do you write so much and claim everything wrong when you dont even compare the right numbers?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
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  18. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Well, I didn't really know, and glad I can be corrected by people who know more than me.
     

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