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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Berger, Nov 23, 2020.

  1. Berger

    Berger Registered

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    Hi, I am new to rFactor. For decades I was driving GPL. And finally I moved on. After Trying out different sims (iRacing, Assetto) I finally settled with rFactor.

    Sim is the best out there. Period.

    Problem is rather disorganization in community. rFactor community has amazing modders. But they do not work together as GPL modders do. In GPL modding community every modder is working in the same team.

    In rFactor modders are scatered around. Different modders are doing different project and are not working together.

    For example. There is a massivley talented 3D modder out there. Who made perfect visual representations of some classic F1 cars. But, he knows nothing about physics.

    If we can assambe a team to help him out with physics, everyone would benefit.

    Its a shame that such a beautifull cars. (those cars really are a masterpieces) have such horrible physics.
     
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  2. Mauro

    Mauro Registered

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    I have been a lover of Gpl for 15 years.
    The Gpl community was the best support community for a simulator.
    It will remain unique and unmatched for a variety of reasons.
    Unfortunately, I see no chance of a rerun in 2020 and beyond. Speech valid for any modern simulator.


    P. S. However you can find great historic cars with good physics. About 70s I suggest you try
    -Lola T280 by Pixsim https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7oloh4zlc6vjy2/Lola_T280.rfcmp?dl=0
    -F1 70s style on workshop
    And if you like gpl, you could try F1 67 legends racing https://forum.studio-397.com/index....acing-2-0-released.58484/page-10#post-1009042
    But there are also others historic interesting mods
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  3. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    Indeed it seems the collaboration between Modmakers is a bit inhibited. On one hand they compete with S397 DLC revenue streams. On the other hand they expand the S397 rFactor2 base. They do have some great physics tools but take some time to learn.

    Old school days (2006-2011) rFactor1 had a better Matchmaker system and the community flocked to rfactorcentral.com as a library/repository along with the usual; forums and even a few short race servers with Leaderboards for members. In those days mod development thrived but there was also rivalry between some of the mod groups. Things got out of hand when Mod Group E would produce a mod with exceptional graphics and horrible physics, and Mod Group T would pilfer the artwork from Mod Group E, revise physics and paint, and re-release it. Modmakers departed.

    Along comes rFactor2 with the new tire physics which came at the same time as a proverbial changing of the guard in Modmakerland. It tended to impede the transition from rFactor1 to 2 for most users at the time. That was then, this is now.

    Ergo, proper physics development takes a lot of input from an experienced racing driver. Vector and force driven parameters are almost straight forward if you have the actual data. Tire files are tedious; in part from the complexity, in part from the silent evolution S397 has applied over the years. Thankfully the tire physics seems to have finally matured.

    The development tools are available here: https://docs.studio-397.com/developers-guide/car-development

    There are number of us "old tuners" around who learned rF1 style modding before the new rf2 tools, and a few of us have logged 1000+ hours of actual seat time. I may be willing to do some alpha testing and return some edited files.
     
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  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    It's tough when the userbase doesn't always know what it wants. Guys like @mantasisg are experimenting and learning and improving and innovating, then a mod comes along that looks quite good but has zero physics development and is basically just ripped models and the community of a game whose strength is the core physics, and lately improved graphics begging for 3d artists (which we also have), picks it up as a great mod.

    o_O
     
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  5. dazzer

    dazzer Registered

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    the vast majority of F1 mods are stolen from other games, that's why the physics in some is so bad.
     
  6. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Registered

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    won't be popular, but I am not sure caring about "userbase" leads to anything good. In my opinion, best things come out of the effort where person himself/herself enjoys what he is creating. I think one of the key issues nowadays is that we have a lot of content that's done for likes, fame, and views, rather that out of genuine joy, love for autosport or cars and personal enjoyment. Create it for yourself, know what you want, and share with others without worrying too much about feedback - that's the recipe.
     
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  7. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @The Iron Wolf yeah, that's true. I was just having a whinge really :p
     
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  8. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @mantasisg please don't take this the wrong way, but mentioning a specific name when that person/group isn't already in the discussion isn't really a great idea. I think the majority of the current discussion also belongs in PMs.

    On that note, I think you could resolve at least some of your discord/forum friction (with other users) by having a private discussion with them especially in regard to specific posts, instead of making reference to them anonymously in public statements. I've seen you saying things like "but I don't know what I'm talking about" either before or after saying something, which is self denigrating but also making some assumptions about how other people see you - which isn't ever a good idea, and is a little unfair if it helps to reinforce your opinion of what they're thinking (which is a very difficult thing to know in the first place).
     
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  9. dazzer

    dazzer Registered

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    I think the thread was distorted too much.
    It would be great if all personal topics stay in PM, and not in this thread.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. dylbie

    dylbie Registered

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    Haha! I love the way the OP asked why don't modders work together and then the rest of this thread just highlights exactly why.

    From my previous experience in this niche I'd say unless you get a team who know each other, have been friends for a long time, and agree on everything and share passion for the same things then it will be difficult.

    I quite often see people slating my Cortina for being ripped or whatever. The fact is, I do this in my spare time and I share it for free. I have a full time job, and lots of other hobbies which take up a lot of my time. I'd love to learn 3D modelling but physically don't have the time to do it. I'd love to be able to go and record engine sounds and buy expensive sound software to process them. I'd love to intricately learn every aspect of the rF2 physics engine and build everything from scratch. But alas I just don't have the time to do it.

    One thing I will say is I like to be a jack of all trades. Almost all of the Cortina was done by me alone. It's my favourite car of all time so I felt I needed to do it alone.

    Without doubt it probably needs an overhaul on every aspect with help from others, but I'm quite proud that I got the car into rF2 and working well on my own.

    I think we need to be more accommodating of the little guys in the modding world. We're all ultimately working for the same goal and that is to put into rF2 what we love and what we are passionate about on a personal level.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
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  11. Navigator

    Navigator Registered

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    Well, the above IS a bit what is going on in the darkest corners of the "mod-scene"; there is fight.
    Not using those guys as an example: I respect them both, let that be clear! But, the argument itself is what lives.

    A long time ago I was doing mods (F1 2014, Indycar, GP2, F2, Zonda) and every time I posted a "try this, early stages, but I need feedback on the physics" I got burned to the ground.
    I stated clearly the rain tires were not okay, don't test them; feedback was, I was a loser because in the rain, it sucked.
    Sound was just a placeholder; I got called names in my pm because the sound was bad.
    90% was negative. Saying something back, almost got me killed by the triggerhappy, horny for power moderator over here.

    A guy comes along spitting out 3 mods a day and he was named a God.
    He used (not even properly) a converter and just used rF1 physics. I asked him why, he went ballistic and withdrew all of his mods.
    I even offered him help.....

    Today; mods go mostly in the Steam workshop. A year or half a year ago I helped with the physics on two of them.
    Reply's were what was wrong. Made it better; silent.
    And that sums it up; when it is good; no one says anything. Modders can easily be burned to the ground. There is fight over mods.
    You are the best modder when you barf out 20 mods an hour with the worst physics there have ever been.
    Guys are very easily pissed off (me being one of them).

    So, that's why in my opinion. :)
     
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  12. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    I'm not into GPL but every video of mods I saw was something historic. This explains why (for the most part) they work together, you are mostly split into open wheels and sports cars. And then most people into older cars can enjoy both.
    The scenario is different in rF2.
     
  13. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    TAKE YOUR DISAGREEMENTS TO PM! Stop airing your dirty laundry in public.
     
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  14. dazzer

    dazzer Registered

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    completely agree with Woodee +1
     
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  15. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    Some of those made-for-one-self projects, aren't always going to stay like that ;)
     
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