Upcoming improvement in the tire model (or physics engine if you have any information) ?

If cars are well made then perhaps just some default setup tweaks would do the job. Anyway... I think it would be much less chaotic than you assume and any physics improvement would be more like enhancement rather than complete rewrite, otherwise it makes no sense to do it at all. I bet Image Space Incorporated had at least some kind of vision where and how to evolve, it would make sense to follow or take references of what it might have been.

 

It seems that x-years long development of new UI has taken away resources from physics being developed. So the physics are not the best anymore in my opinion and so called "new UI" got old again during all those years. Ask any graphics professional about his opinion about "new" UI and its ergonomic value. Not to mention its functionality. After 4 years of development its about time to start from scratch because this one is already old. Time flies and no developer can afford to develop an UI for 4 years. Thats the life cycle of the whole generation of sim these days.

 

But it’s not like they tasked physics guys to help with UI. That would make no sense. AFAIK there’s only Michael Borda who mostly works on tire model and Marek Lesniak who does new cars physics(and updates).
But it looks like some other devs that are not GUI devs were doing that(UI development). This might be the reason why the result is not groundbreaking so far, both in quality and speed of development.
For sure one of major reasons it takes so long is that the existing code used a lot of anti patterns.
They had to rewrite everything to use MVC pattern.

Except tire model there was no major physics development/updates since S397 took over.
Edit: I'm mean there were no physics engine updates.

 

I find it really a shame.

And I begin to understand, which was not the case before, that the realism and the improvement of the physics engine is absolutely not a priority of the simracers (even rF2 users).

Mantas's post said that, and unfortunately I believe he's right.

GRAPHICS PRIORITY + MAGNIFICENT UI, YEEEES ! (pffffff ....).

 

The problem with those tracks is, that it's visualy so distracting, that some tracks are undrivable with rain. It's like driving on a mirror.

Regarding slow development: it's allways interesting to read such statements from people who propably never wrote a single line of code. And it never comes to their mind, that S397 rewrote big parts of the graphics engine, the complete backend and the UI, aswell as creating the competitipn system. And all this while creating a full new game, maintaining old and new content and making events like the LM24 a reality. Ofcourse those projects might not allways be connected to the development of rF2 itself. But it sure helps to keep development going and to open up new possibilities. Some people should really get more relaxed.

 

Well, at least, the community should be made a bit more aware of that... it doesn't seem clear... an alleged lack of physic engine expertise in the team... for what the community value the most in this sim in particular...

It's a the very least worth the discussion.

I know it became obvious to me during the years that there was almost nothing done in the physic engine (probably more than 5years)... Whether the sim need it or not...? is another question in itself... but it could be quiet worrysome for someone that had hope the sim could be developped for years to come after the competition system become a thing...

We have to acknolegde now that even if we wished improvement in that aspect... it would be a struggle to find the expertise... and it could take another set years just to get up to part... the decision was made years ago and all along... by s397... and the consequence are from anecdotal.
Nothing wrong about that in itself... but the communication on the subject have been kind of lacking...

At the end of the day... we have to recognize... that's S397... could be compared to Reiza... a glorified modder team.... with the expection that, unlike Reiza... who put a lot of effort on developping the physic engine... and such, developped good expertise on the subject...
Where s397 put very little Research and developement in that aspect... but hell yeah they developped their skill on visual to make their content attractif... there is no denying the skills the developped in those aspect and the ground work they did the sim for visuals.

It is what this community want to hear tough... not sure?

 

IIRC there were some physics changes when historic McLaren were released. I think they added some simplified active suspension model for MP4/13. It's quite possible some changes in physics engine were also done during Formula E development to simulate electric motor.
But for instance hybrid support is one of long requested features, but as in many cases there's no hit of any development.

 

Let's admit that improving the physics engine is not at all in their priority, it is a fact unfortunately, but they could have communicated on it (and on all the fields besides), but they never do it.

If I created this thread it is precisely that there is no communication, I should not even have had to do it....

And as usual, no information or post from S397 on this topic on this thread......

But don't worry, despite the dozens of requests on this subject on the OFFICIAL forum last years, someone is going to ask the same question on this damn Discord...... And one person of S397 will give the desired information. Sarcasm OFF.

 

You create a thread like this every month. Not sure why you expect a change in behavior each time.

 

After forever lasting UI odyssey, physics and some other stuff is still waiting like Penelope, S397 is like Odysseus.

They did mention physics in one of the latest roadmaps, which was sensational. They said they pretty much start on putting it into their plans. I don't know what it means, probably UI odyssey couldn't last for few more years, or could it ? And it is not only UI, they must be truly busy on bugs and stability issues, so Verstappen and Lando Noris don't disrespect the sim, and side jobs like Grand Tour game, or who knows, maybe more side jobs, none of our business, unfortunately.

 

I am a real rF2 fan (not a fanboy like some who refuse to make constructive critism), and indeed the basis of what I like about rF2 is the realism which I still find superior to other simulations.

In parallel, I made the choice to use exclusively a rF2 (because I think that rF2 is more realistic than the other sim).

In short, what interests me at 90% is realism, and S397 has chosen as priorities all the priorities which do not correspond to the improvement of realism (S I M U L A T I O N), but on the contrary the "video game" aspects.

Worse, these improvements are both incredibly slow and for the most part not really successful.

Anyway, I said what I had to say, now I'm going to take a step back from this thread, otherwise it will go round in circles

 

@DrivingFast as I alread said, I understand your motivation for this thread. And as I said, I understand S397 strategy too, to improve rF2 where it was behind and for some areas still is behind other sims. And I mentioned rF2s unique selling proposition, which for me still is physics and simulation, but can be lost if no energy is put into physics.

But, what certainly is true. There is not much communication from S397 on this official rF2 forum. You get a lot more info on discord. Which is just a simple chat, more sophisticated discussions over weeks/months are IMO not possible (you can talk about pizza though every day), not really preserves discussions for users and is not as searchable as a forum (for years). Maybe these are reasons too for S397 to be more present on discord. (not be able to discuss a topic for month or even years = no commitment = less problems).

You know what. I really miss Tim Wheatley (@88mphTim). In ISI times he was present at official forum every day and answered most questions. (which means many!! )

 

The thing is, they improved certain physics aspects like the drive by wire system for the FE cars. Physics were - while not perfect obviously - never the biggest weakpoint within this product and yet, it never really took off to make it financialy sustainable - and today we drive Ferraris on a fantastic Le Mans rendition. We get roadmaps every month pretty presicely talking about what is in development and it makes zero sense to make wierd assumptions or anything. Fact is: development speed and the active player numbers increased with S397 and while there is still a long way to go, they managed to stabalize the product up to a point where it's still relevant after allmost 10 years. That's certainly not the usual way of how software development works. Yet we got some fantastic content and alot more features implemented compared to when ISI released their last build. I can only recommend people, who see the need to constantly complain to fire up the last ISI build and compare it to what we have today. Let's say, I am just glad that I can still hope for a proper transmission model because there is a long term plan for this sim. This certainly wasn't allways the case with ISI, as much as I liked rF2 even during those times.

On a last note: I would consider myself a rF2 fanboy, but when it matters I give my feedback because it's certainly not all love and roses. Recently I wrote a big ass post in the UI threat giving feedback, and guess what: shortly after I saw some of the things fixed allready. Opening a threat in the general subforum is propably not the right way to drive things forward, even if some of the things might be fair points. My 2 cents.

 

I would say roadmaps often don't describe what is in development. Yes you get some parts of development described in detail, especially when it's being released or near release. But also often you get info, that they are working hard on something and then no updates about it for several months. Best example is competition system, but also about UI etc. It's totally justified that users "make weird assumptions" etc. if there's virtually zero communication from S397 on official forums and only way to be really up to date is to hang out on Discord.

How do you know dev speed increased with S397? In what aspects? I think you could say it about graphics and new content, because I think once ISI released rF2, graphics where not improved much by them.

But on the other hand I agree we should be grateful S397 makes rF2 still relevant to this day and even perhaps have a little more players than during ISI times.

 

Awesome interview, one if not the best rF2 interview. Great questions by Ermin Hamidovic, very informative and honest answers by Marcel Offermans.

This should answer most of the questions by OP. If not, than probably even S397 can't give you an answer by now. But Marcel clearly said, realistic simulation is their strength or USP and still their focus, but they have to catch up on other areas too to be competitive.

 

Yeah, great interview, probably the best ever! Marcel is a nice guy and i'm more calm knowing that he's focused on working on rF2 for the next years! As he said lot's of things are on the "list", the tires/temperatures/rain lines are definitely going to be worked! I'm sure rF2 will still getting better and we're lucky ones that can witness this wonderful piece of software evolution...

 

A car built 4 years after active suspension was banned?

 

They should have done this for the MP4/8.

 

Agreed. McLaren guys are so stupid!