Why I rarely race online these days....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by davehenrie, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I've never claimed to be even an average racer, I used to run in a weekly league that had two divisions and I'd be midpack in the slower group. But today I joined a track to see if I could download the cars. This is what hit me. It took me about 1/2 hour to go from abyssmal to just awful. And then I had to constantly watch the mirror at the two sharp corners on this track. If heavy braking is involved, like at Sebring where the Hotel is, I seem to have to brake earlier than the fast guys do. This ends up with fast guys approaching and slamming into the back of my car when I either brake or ease off the throttle before they do. If all I'm doing is avoiding conflicts at the tough corners, I'm loosing gobs of time each lap. In the end, I managed to get within 5 seconds of the fastest drivers, but I had to constantly ruin good laps to get out of their way.
    Now I know the golden rule is the faster driver must find a way past the slower cars, but If I'm routinely causing incident after incident, it just got easier to move over, lift off, when-ever I was getting caught near one of the heavy braking zones. I'm more a menace to the real racers than they are to me.
    So I go offline where I can slow the AI cars to roughly my pace and reduce all those incidents.
    Just how DO they get slowed down and still get through the corner at such a higher pace than I can ever dream to achieve?
     
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  2. t0p5ecret

    t0p5ecret Registered

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    A huge amount comes from practice, telemetry and setup for sure but I also think a lot of braking comes from the equipment you run, just my opinion. I noticed a huge difference moving from my original Logitech G25 to my current Fanatec CSL Elites. I haven't even moved to load cell on those yet and I am sure the difference would be just as noticeable. Then you've got even further levels of differentiation, CSL Elite Load Cell, to Club Sport V3's to brands like Heusinkveld and Leo Bodnar sensors etc.
    It should also be stated that care of your kit also makes a massive difference. I've tested this on my CSL's and after say 2 weeks of full on use I can see jitters in brake and acceleration in the driver software. I give them a clean out with electrical contact cleaner and they are smooth as again.
     
  3. ADSTA

    ADSTA Registered

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    To true @t0p5ecret.
    To be fast you need good brakes.
    The best hardware upgrade that you can do is a pressure based brake pedal, the pedals either side are not so important. Well so long as the loud pedal can hit a Spinal Tap 11.
    As usual though there are the people who nonchalantly mention they are still using their 15 year old Logitech Momo wheel and pedals whilst lapping you. Freaks be freaks be aliens.
    About the cleanliness issue, I've always mounted my pedals inverted so less chance of crap getting on them.

    @davehenrie if you can find a league that are more casual and less fanatical then it makes the experience more fun, which is why we do this.
    Mirrors, evil things. As the voice in your helmet says, "eyes forward!"
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @davehenrie Maybe they ran into you because they've seen you type 'loosing' instead of 'losing' :D (joking, of course; though at least one person I know, not otherwise too pedantic about such things, does get an eye twitch on the appearance of 'loosing'...)

    In my own experience braking tends to be habitual, and if you're doing it a bit wrong it's a tough habit to change. Most cars want heavy braking at first (rarely slammed on, though; everything tends to be progressive, just different rates at different times) and eased off as speed and front loading drops, moreso on aero cars. You need to actually work on it, though, as lapping tends to involve simply repeating your usual actions. You need to concentrate on a hard braking zone or two and concentrate almost solely on braking as hard as you can before locking up, and learning from each time you do lock up what it was you did wrong. Part of that is learning to react when wheels lock, to ease off and get those tyres rotating then ease back on the brakes again. You need to consciously practice this, assuming you have correctly identified braking as a weakness.

    And that's all in a straight line. Don't complicate things with turn-in until you feel you're getting close to maximising things in a straight line, then brake a little later and experiment with releasing the brake a little earlier than you were and turning in at the same time. Again you need to focus on it.

    Then, after all that braking practice, you need to focus on braking as late as possible but without ever, ever, ever sacrificing your clean apex and exit. Corner speed is where it's at, because any extra speed you have at the apex (power on point) is less power you need to apply to keep up, which makes keeping the car straight easier.

    Finally, watch yourself in replays and see how much road you're not using at corner entry (braking approach), at the apex (check every kerb; some you can use, some you can't), and on exit. If you aren't nearly falling off at corner exit you aren't going fast enough, and that's about picking your power-on point.


    Regarding braking hardware, I think it's overstated a bit. I'm sure strong pedals with load sensors are better for repeatability and feel, it does seem logical; but there's a good chance if you're 5 seconds off the pace a brand new pedal won't make very much difference. I spent years on the G25/27 pedals, switched to T3PA pro when I got a TM wheel, and that brake pedal has better resistance and felt 'better', despite being basically the same mechanism with a stronger spring. After something like 18 months with that I decided I wasn't totally happy with it (tiny bit of freeplay in it) and switched back to the G27s, and immediately I found I could brake at and close to the limit and had better feel for where I was in the range. I'm guilty there of never putting in the practice with my new pedal, and that's the key. But again, not just pounding around lap after lap, you don't learn anything that way.

    A caveat to that: you need no spiking and properly set deadzones. Can't be fast with a dragging brake or barely-there throttle, and if either jumps around during application you really have no chance. So check those inputs now and then and be ready to dismantle and spray as needed.
     
  5. mixer61

    mixer61 Registered

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    The best place to test your braking is just after the banking exit at Daytona Road track!
     
  6. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    Try riding the brakes into the corner (trail braking). I've been racing online in the 'other online sim' (e-racing, is it?) and I've got so much quicker by doing it.

    And as others have said, a decent brake pedal can go a long way. But some guys are just ridiculously quick. I think I'm down to 2s a lap off the aliens now. Which is better than 4 I guess...
     
  7. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    ask for replay file from the server or use yours since they are close to you and go practice offline copying their pedal imputs (since rf2 has it available) and braking points, adjust setups to reach better control with their way of driving and then practice a lot if it's worth investing the time for you. I did that once and reduced the gap from 3 seconds to 0.6 (best lap) from an alien around Interlagos, but that was just for a race and the rythm was just too much for me to keep for a full race, not my thing
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  8. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Well if people are bumping into you when you are braking then it is definitely more their lack of skill than yours. Unless you brake extremely inconsistently and way way too early. Anyway, no one ever should get closer behind anyone in braking zone than they could possibly react to unexpected braking. Furthermore it is useless to be in very close distance due to fact that you need space to overtake in case you have much faster exit, or even if you could make it on entry or mid-turn... well thats just logic and it works perfectly while racing. So if someone crashing into you while braking they are indeed not so good drivers, unless they are literally being brakechecked 100m before braking point.

    I know the feeling when someone is right on your bumper in braking zone, and I know it doesn't feel right. Usually those aren't best simracers. It is common that such drivers goes wide themselves, or just can't make no practical use of such tactics.

    I have one good advice, it usually works perfectly. If someone is very close to you and it feels like dangerous, then just gently brush brakes very lightly a couple of times before braking, this will warn them that you might start braking any moment now. Assuming there is brakelights on the car...

    Other advice. Move towards inside to defend position, while at the same time giving them space to overshoot a bit through outside.

    Third advice. There is no use to race anyone seriously that are a lot faster than you. Just let it go through cleanly, because if you try to race someone who is multiple seconds faster than you per lap, then you just make yourself slower, and in the meantime you fight, you allow even more drivers to catch up.

    Fourth advice. Learn individuals. Always investigate other racers at least for a lap or a few. Everyone is different. Some people gives great racing. And some is better to leave alone, because they race like they are alone on track anyway.

    Interestingly I have these troubles with AI rather often, if they have slightly different grip/braking behaviour, they might be able to brake much later, and in many cases I have found them not to mind it that much to crash into you. So I have to take in account if AI might brake super late at some situation/place.

    I have had a ton of online racing (not past year though), and I think my racecraft is good, and I feel like I could safely push for more edgy stuff than I do. I am starting to really miss this core thing of simracing, which really is - online racing. I don't know why I can't just start racing AC SRS system, or renew iRacing... I guess I just set my mind on rF2 competition system too much, and I am loosing faith on it already, don't even know anything about it. Last rF2 race I had proved my internet not to be stable enough, and there were tons of server/rF2 related problems, feels bad.
     
  9. ADSTA

    ADSTA Registered

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    This is why I only race online.
    It's only a 50 second video but sometimes just one corner can make your night even if it wasn't in my favour and even impress someone enough to make a video of it.
    Turn 1 Phillip Island and the cheeky buggar goes on the outside to get the inside line and the pass at turn 2.


    No paint was harmed in the making of this video.
     
  10. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    FHM hahaha

    Beautiful. These things should happen every evening for a simracer.
     
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  11. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Absolutely do so with the CSL Elite pedals, whether load cell or not. The old Logitech G25 pots were better shielded from falling crap, but eventually erosion of the pots begins to cause spiking, so you need to disassemble and clean.
     
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  12. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Apart from all the tips listed above, you also have to remember there's a 90-200 millisecond lag between their inputs and your game's display of their action. Thus online players will ALWAYS appear to brake faster than you do.
     
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