Honesty speaking rF2 seems a lost cause

I'm not talking about "road feel" or "tyre slip" or "tyre deformation".
Basically EVERY modern sim can do that pretty well.
I'm talking about features, like influences on pressure, tyre damage, track temperatures and air temperatures.
In rF2, you unrealistically underinflate youre tyre and it is fast and stable...you will not damage it.
In this department, it lacks a lot of features. (yet)

 

If the death of RF2's endurance following could put the sim at risk, then let me tell you that the endurance is in grave danger right now.
The time, effort, dedication and investment required by dozens of people and teams for just one race to be thrown out the window by a huge freeze, yours or someone else's, is not acceptable.
Never really was but people were banking on S397 to gradually eliminate the bugs.
After the debacle that the LeMans 24h race was after it's launch,and the huge outcry from those affected, S397 seemed to push heavily to fix rf2 and most teams and drivers silently agreed to give rf2 another chance.
And now we get more of the same, endurance-breaking bugs, some old and, hard to believe, some new, including the dreaded, often race-ending, graphics freeze.
I wouldn't go as far as saying they are not recognizing the issues, even if the communication can be hard at times and the silence deafening.
But people's patience appears lost.
Some people's at least.
I'm not one of those atm, I still believe, however my enthusiasm for rf2 is slowly dying.
And with that comes the inevitable because my enthusiasm for driving fast hasn't died yet and won't die with rf2.
I may or may not be exaggerating but I am not being emotional right now, just what I believe I am seeing happening.

 

"But people's patience appears lost.
Some people's at least."

Seriously?! How long should one expect to wait for bug fixes? Some are over 2 years old now. How long do you think a car manufacturer would stay in business if recalls were allowed to go untouched for over 2 years? About as long as rF2 in it's current state will.

 

You are comparing multi million £$€ company's to a smallish niech game dev team lol.
Come on now

 

It's always the same, S397 release new content, "wow epic best ever"
S397 don't release something for a short period, "rf2 is doomed, S397 is an evil cooperation"
Do you guys really think S397 are sitting on their hands, laughing we have their money.
Or do you think, they are hard at the grind stone doing what they can, and God forbid it doesn't they can't complete anything in the time frame you deem acceptable
"S397 dlc is too expensive"
"rf2 development is too slow"
Oh the irony of the self entitled.
You paid a one off fee, and S397 are developing your favorite Sim already for yrs and still yrs to come.
All I can say is, I got frustrated too, because I want to rf2 realise its potential, I got mad, had basically a social media break down, but then stepped away, played other games, and realised the grass ain't always greener

 

OK I agree with that, maybe except tyre damage. Don't know what you mean, punctures? Because it has advanced flatspotting, blistering etc.
Anyway, for me most important is how realistic it behaves at different slip angles, how it behaves at the limit and transitions from grip to sliding and re-grips. And of course how it's all communicated via FFB. My subjective feeling it's the best at it. Of course there's more to FFB feeling i.e. whole suspension model, but tires are what stands out among other sims.

But yeah it seems there's no progress with tire model development, at least I haven't seen any communication from S397 since 1.5 year or so.
I don't think Michael Borda is also engaged in GUI development (just joking).

 

When you drive with (cold) underinflated tyres like the Porsche Cup, for example, you can lower the tyre pressure under 120 Kpa and gain time and stability (the laptimes with these low pressurized tyres are even more realistic, than with "realistic" values in addition to that). But no damaging of the tyre, while going over curbs or no overcooking, even with high negative camber values. All you do, is increasing your contact patch, without consequences, but even there, some could discuss, if this is quite right or realistic...

I find it to be very "drifty" in rF2...you are the fastest, even with aero cars, when you slide, this is true until a certain point, but seems often too much to me. I could be mistaken, i never was sitting in a GTE or LMP car.

 

Did I said it should be binary? Do not twist my words. I said :

Do you know how modern racing slicks behave? From what I know they have better grip than old ones, but once the let go it's much more sudden. So i.e it seems to me the ones in GT3 and Endurance pack cars are a little bit too forgiving. But I have no telemetry to prove it If you have data that shows otherwise, then I'd be happy to change my mind (because that would mean they are more realistic than I think).

Forgot to add that GT3 tires are indeed much less forgiving when worn off.

 

I think only rF2 of all modern sims can do things like tire slips, deformations and so on.. all the complex stuff really well. Other sims does those thing in much more simplified ways, at least as much as I am aware of.

I assume that things like fine pressure simulation and fine temperature simulation would come easy after that, but perhaps I don't understand something. Maybe in the way that ISI chose to simulate tire it is the other way around. One would assume why not just to use some majorly simplified stuff to balance these lacks out, but maybe it just wouldn't be good...

Same goes for clutch, I would just assume that it wouldn't be so difficult just to kick the gear out if clutch plate wasn't depressed while making a gear shift at particular rpm.

 

Your feelings are contradictory, you think rF2 tires are the most true to reality but you don't believe how they behave. For me rF2 is very nice at the wheel but I have always noticed an excess of oversteer that is there in 99% of cars and I feel a lack of understeer in all of them. With the arrival of S397 the adhesion increased considerably and in my opinion I felt an improvement in the oversteer. Regarding the sliding of the GT3, I have read several times to real drivers to say that a GT3 is a very safe car, with a lot of grip but very difficult to save when the grip is lost. In my opinion, like yours, this does not seem very realistic in rF2.

 

Aris from KS mentioned it one time, that modern slicks have around 10°-15° of angle before the grip under slipping/turning is falling off pretty rapidly...still with a margin of course but this sounds pretty similar to your information.^^
I find it to be also the case with rF2, just the fall off in tyre grip is more gradual, than ACC or R3Es new GT3 models for example. They all behave closely, but rF2 is the most forgiving in my opinion.^^

 

I'm thinking, they have not enough people to work on a project (especially with this complicated foundation), without getting burnout, when pace of development is too high, honestly...

Their testing and quality control is basically the userbase in many cases.

No sim developer does this for cash-in. It's a passion and i'm convinced, they have the best intentions! And i think, most of the poster here also know this. That's not the point of the whole topic here.

 

Yes I already agreed with most of these issues. Regarding damage, I don't know if underinflated tire would be significantly damaged by curbs, unless you mean high ones, which you'd better avoid anyway, then of course. Of course, underinflated tires' increased contact patch should make you faster, but there are downsides, like overheating, which generally is not problem in rF2.

 

You can lose pressure and damage your tyre by any type of kerb, that isn't just paint, when running severely underinflated. With less pressure you will raise the risk of having problems with that. rF2 doesn't punishes you for doing so, so it is still more of a "testing tool" for specific values and their results, than made for racing in specific tolerances, adapting to situations to gain an advantage. So basically it's a physics exploit and we all know it is one, when it comes to racing other people. That is not realistic, that is gamey (no bashing)

 

Yeah, modern slicks' overall good grip, but with rapid grip falloff, is what I've also read (and what Alex Hodgkinson form Raceroom, said in a podcast interview). Perhaps some independent, pro GT driver will finally do a proper rF2 review and compare with other sim(s).
But AFAIK vast majority of pro drivers use iRacing. I know David Perel(GT3 driver) who used iRacing, said ACC is pretty accurate, but he might be biased as he does some consulting for ACC.

 

Nicki Thiim recently streamed ACC after a year of leaving it unistalled and frustrated with it, testing it now with the 1.2 update and was VERY positive about it, comparing it with iRacing and said, he had finally fun again, driving a GT car in a sim in ACC, because iRacing is inaccurate (And he is not shilling it definetly but neither i think, Dave Perel is. Perel also mentioned, that the threshold of sliding is still a bit harsh in ACC, so the truth lies in the middle of all these sims, it seems )

 

I didn't know that. But you are now saying severely underinflated. I don't think pressure ranges in rF2 allow that. Also if I remember correctly Michael Schumacher often raced with underinflated tires, and surely used curbs.
Regarding tTool it tests for wide variety of events including ones that cause pretty large deformations, but I have no idea if it correctly reflects running over curbs.

 

OK I've heard that Nicki said something like that, but didn't watch the video. It's good to know some sims had significant progress in terms of physics...I wish it also could be said about rF2

 

Porsche cup under 120 Kpa cold is pretty severe (pressures around 150 Kpa cold seem more reasonable)...these cars run very sharp camber values and even the michelin charts don't recommend under 1.2 bar (with low negative camber values)...this was adressed in the Porsche GT3 Cup threads already, i don't find the posts right now...
Also pressures around 140 Kpa on GT3 is pretty low, but fast in rF2,^^

Formula cars are a different story indeed, they run pretty low pressures very often. Schumacher was definetly running heavily lowered cold tyre pressures (using kerbs, still is a thing, you should do with hot pressures though), in this regard rF2 is not that wrong, yeah. rF2 succedes very well with open wheelers, in my opinion. When it comes to other cars, it's a dual edged blade though...

 

Every Sim I've played, you run the lowest pressures for best laptimes