Honesty speaking rF2 seems a lost cause

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by williang83, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. Obbzy_XR_

    Obbzy_XR_ Registered

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    Wow!
    May have to rename this thread 'Nuffies on rF2 bitch-fest'? :rolleyes:
     
  2. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    May have to rename you into "Insultor - The bitchfest bitcher" :rolleyes:

    The first really toxic comment in the thread and it comes from you, congratulations, that's exactly, what the point was for the OP, i'm absolutely sure.:)

    Best regards
    CrimsonCringelord:D

    P.S.: I think, many of the poster here want to see rF2 succeed and sometimes, it's good to canalyze some of the 1st world frustration somewhere.^^
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
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  3. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    I think that we have already seen a lot of toxic posts in this thread .... lol a lot of “rfactor2 is already dead”, “ rfactor2 tire model sucks”....
    However I own AC, RR3E and rfactor2 and for me all 3 are good but damn guys of you want to rate which one has the most sophisticated physics/tire model you should do it with DD steering wheel and specially a good motion system and I can tell you that the sim that gives me more sensation that I’m driving a real car through my 5DOF motion system is rfactor2. The amount of telemetry that rfactor2 produces is insane.
     
  4. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    Let’s me add that in my WhatsApp motion owners group some members have ACC and they say that ACC is very good to but ACC has only GT3 so it’s much more easy for them.
     
  5. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    It's more about missing features and lack of bug fixing and progress of improvements and not about flexing with your gear here.^^ Nobody argues, that rF2 puts out some really nice ways of feedback...
    It's "overrated"...show me the quote with "sucks", maybe also the one with "already dead".^^
    In my WhatsApp wooden chair and wooden plate single screen group, they're saying, it's all pretty enjoyable :D (I should probably really create one :eek:)
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  6. R.Noctua

    R.Noctua Registered

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    I don't doubt your words, but I started playing RF2 recently, so I don't know all the details, and I haven't fully figured out all the settings yet.

    But in general, I know what you're talking about - in this corner, I apply the brake with throttle, otherwise the back part throws. It's weird that that happens to GTE. :confused: Thought it was a flaw in my skill since I had never used Le Mans before.
     
  7. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    You definetly have to be gentle with weight transfer in the Porsche Curves, that's essential, but the rear just flies away, even with countering by setup in these cars, so it's very over the top right now. (It was even worse, when driving in a pack through there, but this seems to be fixed)

    Some basic recommendations, that make it a bit better for me:

    Try stiffening the overall front with springs, dampers and so on, lower rear ride height, lower tyre pressures close to minimum, stiffen overall ARBs and try a high value for diff preload. Maybe also a bit more wing, but it will tank your top speed very hard, so not the best for LM, a bit less negative rear camber, a bit more rear positive toe. (EDIT: had confused positive and negative, regarding camber and toe, it's early in the morning here, sry :D )
    This will probably not make your car any faster, but maybe a bit safer with a wider margin for going on/over the limit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
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  8. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    It will never happen, but as a fan of rF2, I would very much like S397 to tell us what they are going to try to improve in 2020, very precisely, and tell us what their priorities are among these developments.

    While making it clear that they are the masters of their agenda.

    Damn, what do we know where we're going :

    Improvement of the physics engine ? Priority ? What areas should be improved ?
    Can we have for example more visibility on the improvement of the AI (for example), because it is very little usable currently ?

    Etc etc, on all areas that S397 intends to work in 2020, and also respond to what is highly anticipated but will probably be worked on later.

    In short, real useful communication, in contrast to roadmaps that teach us practically nothing.
     
  9. R.Noctua

    R.Noctua Registered

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    Thank you very much for the reversed answer! I'll try it tonight, because while at work. :)
     
  10. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    I wonder why ppl are expecting physics improvement when the cars being released aren't making proper use of everything already in their hands right now...
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  11. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    If you're running low wing and trying to throw a car into Porsche Curves it WILL kill you ;)
     
  12. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    I don't agree with that - the tire model is not completely overrated. In fact I think CPM is still the best when it comes to accuracy. Best example are tires integrated in Endurance pack ang GT3 packs. I know it's subjective, but combined with FFB I get best road feel, especially when driving on the limit, transitions from grip to sliding states etc. Perhaps the tires have to little grip falloff for racing slicks. Transition from gripping to sliding state seems too smooth, and should be more sudden. It makes driving GT3s and saving slides too easy IMHO. But I may be wrong about that.
    Anyway, most cars, even with old CPM tires from 2015 feel better than in other sims for me.

    Yes the model has some significant long standing issues you mentioned, missing features, like no influence from track temperature. I also think perhaps tire temperatures should have more impact on grip (i.e. overheated tires should have less grip). but I'm also not that sure about that. But which tire model has no issues? The one in ACC?, pCars 2(Seta), iRacing's NTM7, or Raceroom? All have significant issues and limiting simplifications.
    Also despite missing some features, rF2 tire model also has some other features that still other modern sims don't have or are simplified.
     
  13. bobbie424242

    bobbie424242 Registered

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    I must say I am not super optimistic either.

    My main gripe is that Studio 397 does not care much about improving the AI, thus no improvements in that area. It rests a bit on its laurels since AI in some other sims was not so great although it is catching up. The focus seems to be all about online multiplayer, competition systems, real life track and cars, so AI gets neglected. Having excellent AI is a must for any sim.

    Also 3 years to deliver the first beta of a new UI, when whole games get made in that timeframe! And IMHO the new UI miss the mark a bit as it is so slow to operate due to so many pages and empty space and slow animations (this could be fixed but I have little hope that it will).

    Although I love AMS and already pre-purchased AMS2 and think it will be excellent, AMS2 is not a replacement for rF2 as the design goals are fairly different. AMS2 will likely not be perfect on release but I have full confidence in Reiza for fixing and improving whatever needs it, regularly.

    Overall, rF2 progresses at a very slow pace. New UI should have happened 2 years ago. It seems to fall under its own weight where improving anything takes forever. Technical debt piled up upon years has surely something to do with it.
     
  14. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    I hope you are not right .. but my fear is there ..
     
  15. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Last RoadMap was really amazing + with a lot of stuff. Lets see what it is going to be with the first one of 2020. But I would bet that 2020 will be only UI updates, hopefully competition system (and hopefully it is good). And more graphical improvements which I suppose should be quite pleasant judging by how cool Le Mans track looks.
     
  16. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    Yes, that doesn't make much sense to me too. I was told that exactly that transition from gripping (stable) to unstable state is the most complex thing in realistic tire simulation. In simple tire models this always will be a fast transition, cause they can't simulate the complex tire state between stable and unstable. But which is most important in fast racing cause those drivers are always on the edge. Mastering exactly that stage is one of the reasons you are fast or slow.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
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  17. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    Simulating the correct contact patch size, shape and grip seems one of the strengths of rF2. For example, in reality, parts of the contact patch are static, while other parts of the same patch already in a dynamic slide. Obviously you can't simulate this with only one contact point. In rF2 depending on contact patch form and size some "nodes" are still have grip while others are sliding a bit. This should also give a bit smoother transition from static (grip) to dynamic grip (sliding).

    However, I also have the impression that cars with radial slicks have a bit to wide limit. For example, GT3/GTE cars doesn't seem to slide that much in reality. Of course very subjective and only by watching cockpit videos.

    To think further: Assuming a tyre/contact patch goes through the process of static to sliding. This process cant be perfectly smooth, because at some point the remaining bunch of nodes which are still static, can't hold the load/force and give up all at once (more or less). At this point the whole tyre is sliding.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
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  18. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    If you're running correct rake and stiffness, your car shouldn't be that murderous anymore ;) (but it is)
    Too much wing is harming on Le Mans, btw. especially with these slow rF2 GTE.
     
  19. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    To me it is no wonder that something as simple and straightfordward "Transition from gripping to sliding state seems too smooth, and should be more sudden." makes no sense for gpu and vittorio.

    @TJones True, rF2 tire is super physical, thats why it is so exciting. By the way, I would suggest that sliding tire also "still has grip", it is just sudden drop of it that is not sufficient to keep up with stresses that were bearable for a tire just moment ago.
     
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  20. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    It's easy to see how S397 have ended up 'trapped' in this position. When they took over rF2 3 years ago, they knew the following: (i) they had market-leading physics and AI (ii) they lacked online competition infrastructure [including mod/content management] (iii) they had issues with graphical quality and no VR and (iv) they lacked fully licensed content, and relied on modders for just about everything. At that time, we had AC and PC1, both of which had AI that sucked and physics that partially sucked; iRacing had no AI; and the other games had AI based on the same ISI code. I can see why they would not have that as a priority to change at that time. So they set to on fixing the graphics/VR in the short term, and competition as a longer term project; and added licensed content. It's just that doing things like the Amazon game (probably under pressure to get revenue) and then the UI taking 3+ years, they've consumed all the resource bandwidth they had, and now they have fallen behind ACC and PC2 in numerous areas, and Reiza bailed on using the rF2 graphics engine and tire model and in fact ditched all of what that had in favor of Madness engine. But this still doesn't excuse what has been going on with the vehicle dynamics and content quality; that's dropping the ball on stuff that was always needed (and will continue to be needed) in the dev plan. But its not just the UI, they are still 3 years into graphics changes and telling modders "don't do anything yet because we might yet fundamentally overhaul some of the graphics code model". What caused that? So now we've got just about every part of the sim in various stages of redevelopment. I recently quit my job with a software company in exactly this situation. A year ago, they had developers spending 70%+ of their time doing fixes/workarounds required by their customers, so they weren't moving the base capabilities along. So they decided to stop spending so much time on the fixes/change requests, and flipped to 70% on core redevelopment. They put out a roadmap, that had a hugely ambitious set of timelines for replacement/upgrade of core components (and I'd told everyone that was a pipe dream); and as we sit here now, NONE of those have actually been completed; and we'd got pissed off customers with stuff that didn't work/didn't do what we claimed, sat with no quick fixes being done either. It's not a good place to be in.
     

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