How’s the new BMW M2 Clubsport 450hp version?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by avenger82, Dec 21, 2019.

  1. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    where is the log fix de s397 of Callaway I haven't seen any bugs personally.
    looks at the GT3 GTE on sebring and dares to say that it passes quietly lol
    I drive this BMW very often and I felt such a bug except when it's at the limit of its capacity, the normal ones.
     
  2. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Yeah, but this is a Renault...what else to expect from it :D jk
    Looks way more natural for me, than the BMW post btw.

    So why is there still no official info, if this behaviour is normal for the CS, instead we are watching a french box, going way to fast :D
    I'm still not convinced, that i need this car, seeing and reading, how it behaves.

    I think, you can work against that better in the CS, than in a low Espace with a F1 engine. Somebody could try to make a setup (strong ARB, stiff rebound values) that supresses oscillations and flexing body, for example, to show, how it behaves in comparison on Dubai or some other course with this phenomenon.
     
  3. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    what do you have against renault is a brand with multiple titles in many championships.?
    so far I've only seen one weird video with the BMW nothing else on thousands of users it's a bit weak isn't it?
    personally before shouting at the bug I'm waiting for some serious tests!
    It's true that S397 could come and say a few words on the subject.
     
  4. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    And their cars break. I worked on Peugeot and Renault cars and their construction is...french :D man, "jk" means just kidding.
    One evidence report is enough to show something, when it's recorded. Many people don't even think about, if something could be wrong. Many don't report in Forums or have the time to test enough or use the same tracks and so on....
    I was asking questions in the thread, regarding the behaviour and setup changes, but don't got many answers. This video shows me, that something is off, no matter if setup, physics model, underlying car dynamics or track. But no answers -> no cookies :D
    Yeah...would be interesting to hear, what's the deal there and how to counteract, if possible. If they have a clue about their own sim-car, there should be an answer out there.
     
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  5. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    Where is the log fix that you locked the fast damper settings after the update or that the steering lock was changed from maximum 16 to 12 degrees. You won't find that either, and yet it has been changed.
    When the GTE Corvette was released in June 2018, some updates to the GT3 Corvette had already been made, as it was released in September 2017. And do you really think that S397 will admit every mistake accurately with the channel logs instead of doing it with minor physics adjustments that were mentioned? I know several people who found the bug in the Corvette very annoying and were happy with it after the update.
     
  6. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    wow S397 the big bad multinational corporation that's hiding things!
    I'd just like to see another bug video with the BMW, only one is too light, sorry.
     
  7. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    Exactly. I remember driving as a co-driver with a Porsche 911 gt3 (991) around Nordschleife IRL. No other cars on track, so very fast. What i remember most was, that i could feel with my guts that the car lost and got grip many times around corners. I called it "bounce" around a corner. What i wondered that time was, why did i never feel that in rF2 with a car?
     
  8. CrimsonEminence

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    They actually do, or why, do you think, several cars have locked telemetry channels? :D
    There are several reasons for it, though...
    Because this car is a road car and oscillates a lot more, than race cars in rF2. It's pretty normal...You can feel such things in the wheel often enough, also see them in rF2. Give the GT3 Cup on the Nordschleife a try with the Supercup config :D
     
  9. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    thats what i wanted to say. a car "bouncing" around a corner doesn't mean it is modeled wrong, as in my example Porsche 911 GT3, it is realistic. (and i wondered why i never felt that in rF2, are physics and cars not realistic?). If that effect now occurs with rF2 Porsche and BMW Cup cars (which are more near street cars than other rF2 race cars) for me this is more a sign of being modeled and simulated realistic. As long as no one proofs that wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  10. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    If you tune your chassis in such a way that it loses ground contact massively, you are basically doing something wrong. If the suspension is constructed in a way that does not allow changes in a way that avoids loss of ground contact, then the suspension is badly constructed.
    You can´t avoid bouncing all the time on bumpy tracks if you want to avoid a massive shift of the COG caused by a soft suspension and the Porsche also bounces a bit up and down, but does not lose contact with the ground like the BMW . Its completely different and not comparable. No other car shows that strange behaviour
     
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  11. CrimsonEminence

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    What we see on the post is pretty overexaggerated, such kind of longitudinal "bouncyness" would feel a lot worse in the car, than just "bouncy"...this is already "shakey", it basically rolls from left to right.^^
    It could be specific to some tracks, it could be setup, it could be a suspension model problem with the car model itself... it's very unbalanced and not settled, so information, if there is a problem or how to counteract would be nice indeed.
    After GTE changes and similarities of behaviour in car dynamics of newer S397 cars, i'm more on the side of "prove me, it's realistic", but how to realize that in the first place...

    The Lumimari race car and the Puma GTE in the Reiza Pack also are not that far away from softer street cars and they aren't shaking that way, for example. The CS has sophisticated tech, so i don't know.
     
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  12. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    This is one of the times when i really would like to get some feedback from S397 here. I remember i read from S397 they worked very closely with BMW to model and verify the BMW M2 Clubsport.
    (but probably every sim developer does. IMO most difficult and important is verification though. maybe we get a few words?)
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  13. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    S397 will not comment on it. They didn't do that for the GT3 Corvette either, but fixed it in the course of updates. It just took a while and everyone in my league avoided the car, especially in VR because there was no stabilize horizon function at that time you got really sick on uneven tracks and you could hardly see anything because of all the shaking.
     
  14. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    Well, reading S397 article when releasing the car, they already told us (so probably no need to tell us the same again):

    "The close collaboration with BMW Motorsport, which started already during the development and testing of the real car, meant we had full access to every aspect of the car and the performance data BMW has gathered over the last couple of months. This means not only does the car look beautiful, being created based on the actual CAD data for the exterior, interior and suspension, but it drives just like the real one. We faithfully recreated every setting that you can use to setup the car and by comparing telemetry with that on our laser scanned tracks, we validated all aspects of suspension, engine and gearbox behavior. During these development iterations, we also had the BMW Motorsport drivers helping us with testing and validating the physics, so all the ingredients are there for an enjoyable time behind the steering wheel!"

    see https://www.studio-397.com/2019/12/bmw-m2/
     
  15. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    They wrote that to the GT3 pack release :" We’ve worked closely with the manufacturers to create the most accurate model, physics and sound we could" and and then they changed fundamental settings such as the damper settings by locking the fast bump and rebound stages. They also reduced the steering lock to 12 degrees, although I think that's a mistake, because you can hardly get out of tight boxes without hitting the box wall. Also the complete suspension was changed. Why was this necessary when they had the data to simulate everything correctly.In the beginning the Corvette drove like the BMW, then not anymore. That means, mistakes can always happen, nobody is free before. A wrong entry is enough.
     
  16. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I don't know why you replied to me.
     
  17. Paul McC

    Paul McC Registered

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    Er thought I’d replied to Andregee. Sorry
     
  18. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Similar bouncing behavior on slow corners I noticed long time ago on Group C mod. Also F3 WIP by SlowMotion sometimes bounces on thight corners. But if indeed the BMW M2 CS bouncing is wrong, then it might even mean something is wrong in rF2 physics engine. Since it's official car created using real detailed data. Anyway, we know it's very rare someone from S397 responds here. I've heard the official Discord channel is better place to get any kind of response.
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I appreciate the dig at the "real detailed data" :) (DrivingFast should be proud!)

    But, this car isn't extreme enough to approach any sort of limits in the physics engine, and I don't think we've really seen any approach of limits in rF2 (some parameter ranges could cause problems in rF1, for certain types of car). The video that was posted of the car 'oscillating' side to side looks like a damper error or collision issue (undertray points, or collision body), and that's only in my limited knowledge - could be a number of potential causes.

    Unfortunately little errors that don't manifest in general testing (or while replicating a test to verify against known data) can slip through, and sometimes it seems no matter how big your bank of tests you always miss the one that would have picked up the fault. I'm a little put off by recent DLC quality, and perhaps moreso by the slow rate of fixes. I also have little faith in the testing team, I think many people volunteering to test the game and content do it more for bragging rights or for 'early access' instead of actually trying to test edge cases and report issues.
     
  20. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    That's exactly what's happening for far majority of the people that actually show up for testing. Many would be surprised how not many and how rarely some people on test team even show up for testing.
     
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