Latest Roadmap Update - November 2019

You will be disappointed with AMS2. Not because of AMS2 but because you are disappointed with every game. If you cannot find a sim to enjoy nowadays nothing will ever satisfy you.

 

Nah it doesn't take much to satisfy me, it's just that rf2 physics aside lacks in anything else. I mean honestly speaking RF2 is one of the most sterile out there, others instead are not sterile but they aim too much to simarcade.

 

This, but it got worse imo

It's called feedback and as always this is given by the smallest % of the user base (worth for anything, music show, tv show, software, etc) even inside a online racing community with 30 or so ppl it's not uncomon to see a minority actually saying things when you need and it's irritating tbh because sometimes listening to the majority is really needed
And sometimes you just cant stay in silence. For example I wanted to restart the leagues in EEC (IMSA league), if I went ahead I'd find bugs of all types and then as the icing on the cake S397 messed BoP (GTE and GT3, both inside and between classes and would happen with the league running), you can bet if I did that league I'd flood the forum with rage LOL
Just imagine how much more ppl would be playing then, in silence, if the devs got their poop together.

 

There are a lot of different reasons and driving styles out there. And I think older cars with softer suspension guys and the newer race car guys or on either end of this scale? And it seems street car are the hardest to stimulate?

 

I'd rather the feedback be detailed than just "It's broken", "It's unrealistic" "it's crap"

Okay, HOW is it broken, WHY is it unrealistic? Details.

 

There has been plenty around the forums, ofc some ppl like to only get the "omg this is broken" examples to feel better about themselves and pretend there is nothing wrong. Still doesn't change what I said: feedback is given by a minority. Move on.

 

Where have I pretended there's nothing wrong?

 

Took a tad longer this month for roadmap thread to get heated (-;

 

So, I think the issue is that we aren't seeing consistent progress on all fronts: its "one step forwards, two steps back" in certain features or capabilities.

Most of us have tried different sims over the years; and we've come to learn that some are strong in some aspects/features, and some are better in others. So you're own usage profile, is going to result in favoring one particular title over another at any given point in time or version/release. This doesn't mean anyone is necessarily a "fanboy" of any one title being superior to all others on all aspects - such a sim doesn't exist, and probably never will. So you are looking for consistent improvements, a model of development where certain features or capabilities are targeted for improvement, and after a time, those improvements do come to fruition. That takes management discipline, as well as individual developer skills. This can be as diverse as getting physics 'more believable' or structuring the UI for session selections etc.

We're on the cusp of one of the biggest projects this team (S397) have undertaken: a replacement of the entire UI. They've executed once against the replacement of the entire graphics engine (DX11/VR), and also under prior iterations, full integration with Steam. But one of the criticisms of ISI was that they'd start any number of development areas, but they'd never seem to get to a final, fully polished state. We're seeing something of the same with S397, or appear to be. Some of this is down to limited resources; but some appears to be down to the lack of the roadmap and 'get it fully sorted' mentality. I just quit my job with a software company in a completely different field, for this exact reason; promises got made and the product team couldn't deliver, and there wasn't any accountability being taken for that - the philosophy of 'try it and maybe fail' of innovation just left way too much in the failed state, and frustrated/annoyed/angry clients, that it was my job to deal with.

I think there is a genuine desire by S397 to improve the sim: they'd never have taken on the challenge if they didn't have this. But there have been a few instances where questionable decisions have been made. S397 made it very clear they were going to develop 'top tier' content (mainly, vehicles) fully licensed etc. and for the most part they have carried through this; see Prototypes, GT cars etc. released. But there's been issues with them. In the latest example, and attempt at the LeMans24 race showed up a number of flaws in the software, and that event came off badly; so they decided to take resources off 'planned developments' to fix the issues that arose (and which affect many other customers/users as well). But they seemed to simultaneously do a very questionable BOP/physics change at the same time, to 'improve the show' for that one event. It may be that there were inadvertent mistakes that got made as part of that process, but if the cars were reckoned to be based on real-world data, changing the physics so the results 'looked better' seems to go against the supposed philosophy being touted; so those mistakes have compounded and amplified issues that already existed.

In my case, which is unique like everyone else's is, I'd gotten frustrated with the iRacing physics/tires such that I finally stopped practicing with the cars, and then competing online as well. I took rF2 up again to try to find something that was better with the physics/tires, but understanding that they lacked the online structures. I wasn't prepared to do what was necessary to find online racing on PCars2, and the physics on that was highly variable; some cars like the IndyCar at Long Beach was a really good challenge and enjoyable, where others were utterly terrible. Much touting has gone on with PC2 graphics, but there are many times these are poor as well, especially with shadows at longer draw distances. In fact, I'd say all the games suffer from similar draw-distance issues and especially with shadows. iRacing caught up with dynamic lighting/shadow casting and day-to-night, and I'd now say their implementation of this is superior to all other sims. rF2 feels incomplete in this area, and there's a tension on improving performance (frame rates) versus this quality change. So the current priorities have changed; where it had been graphics and content, it got moved to fixing multiplayer bugs and all the while the UI work had to keep progressing.

I think we are all tired of the wait for the UI; hopefully they can get that released and bedded down enough in the next six months that other priorities can again come to the fore. It's this process I hope future roadmaps will look at, because like others, I feel its become just a way of touting content and not much else in recent months. But we need to be ready, we may get 'nothing but UI' for the next 6 months. But I do hope they go back to fix some of the content/BOP and other issues as well, and completing developer/modder documentation for all the graphical stuff, before embarking on some other major projects, like a rework of the AI or rain. Maybe a longer range 'State of The Sim' roadmap for early January, to lay some of this out?

 

Well said, burgesjl

 

Take bets next month?

 

I honestly believe as soon as the competition system is stable & ready for release with the new UI S397 would be smart enough to have some new content for release. IMHO it will be like launching a 2.5 version of rf2 i expect a big sale and incentives for ppl to jump across to rf2. looking forward to 2020. merry xmas & a happy new yr ALL.

 

Content release?? I hope they'll start fixing/improving the overall package!

 

Marketing has never really been rF2's forte, whether under ISI or S397. And honestly they haven't had much to crow about compared to the other big studio sim releases. Their claim to fame is their physics and tire model. S397 have improved the graphics to a point where it is competitive with the other sims. The online racing is woefully lacking. They are working on it. But the development is glacially slow compared to what is seen by other studios.

We have had great content releases which have offered s397 some much needed revenue to continue the improvements. I believe in their vision of what rF2 can be. But they need to get this rocket lit and then market the crap out of the new UI and Competition infrastructure. Make their presence known as an alternative to iracing specifically and ACC, Raceroom, AMS(2) more generally. How often have you heard rF2 get passed over when discussions occur about sim racing. it is the least accepted and used Sim of all of them.

 

That's true, unfortunately. Nevertheless, I think that will change soon. S397 are definitely on the right track! The UI will be released in the next days and will push rF2 again

 

Well, the new U.I. release will disappoint most of the people that will try it, because as stated, initially it will be a transposition of what we already have (functionality wise). The first iteration will serve to ironing out bugs. Then someday later in 2020 we should see it updated and hopefully an online competition system will spawn from it, again, probably in a beta state, then developed as time goes by.
I can wait for it, as I'm the kind of people that can wait something for 8 years with little problem, but I can understand those that get bored after 2 years. Leagues do a great job to host races and championships on RF2, but I would really like that RF2 would be able to create his own online activities without good samaritans to help him, and without player forced to downloand GBs of content just to "try" to enter a server.

 

@Comante Yep, we're playing the long game here. Some people don't want that, and that's fair enough.

 

You always have to make the best of what you have. And there is simply no real alternative to rF2. The processes are progressing slowly, but they are moving forward. I am optimistic and looking forward to the future.

 

Pretty much this, I see no other choice in the market and this is unfortunate, if there was another I'd have removed this from my Steam list long ago (which is also unfortunate because this thing has a lot of potential)

 

There is alteratives, just need to stop being nieve.

Simple.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but rf2 isnt the be all and end all!