When are we gonna have ERS in rFactor 2? Also Some Thoughts

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by Findla22, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Findla22

    Findla22 Registered

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    I have a little question for developers: When are we going to have a working ERS system in rFactor 2?

    I don't think is that difficult and this would make a big improvement in a professional simulator like rFactor 2 is. Most modern cars have hybrid systems. Formula 1, Le Mans, Formula E...

    I don't think is difficult to develop it as it was working in rFactor 1 with rF_HighVoltage (KERS... but it was something hybrid to start with).

    Most modern simulators like Assetto Corsa or iRacing have a working ERS or Hybrid systems.
    Some arcade games such as Project CARS or Project CARS 2 are working too and I think F1 2017 Codemasters will have MGU-K + MGU-H too (I have read it in some information pages).

    I think its time for rFactor 2 to include Hybrid Systems as they are the future and also the present. Just have to think that the king of motorsports (Formula 1) is using hybrid cars.

    Well, at this momment of the post, I want to let you 100% know that this is just my opinion and I know other people can have different thoughts.

    I would like to say that rFactor 2 should also include some eye candy visual things to improve the immersion and attract more people to the sim. I am talking about some eye candy things like better support for LCD screens so modders can make them more realistic.

    Finally, to finish this post I would like to say that modders have too much disinformation about how to work in the physics and modding. I know we have guides but there are a lot, a lot of settings that are not explained and modders must destroy their brains to understeand what is the logic the game uses for X numbers. For example, I was searching for how BoostTurboPressure numbers works and I couldn't find anything and I still don't know what each of the 2 numbers means and what are their units. I also think we should have more tools to edit physics because for example if you want to make an engine torque curve you have to do crazy things in Excel or if you want to multiply the tyres abrassion per volume to a multiplier like for example 0.8 you have to multiply 23 numbers while in rFactor 1 you just had to multiply 1 number called WearRate. Yes, I know rFactor 2 is better but you could make a tool to simply change those numbers with a multiplier instead of loosing 2 hours to do it to 5 or 6 different compounds while it could be possible to make it in 10 seconds with a Tool.

    To finish, I would also say that I don't understeand we have this high technology of tire model and tire punctures are not working. Whats the sense of that? Very intensive and complicated values to make a tyre with the new tire model but it misses a huge important thing... the punctures. You can take a look at Silverstone F1 2017 and you will see how important is this to be included in the simulator as soon as possible.

    See you all. Have a nice day and respect my opinions pls.
     
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  2. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Some reasonable points, though not sure technical support is quite the right place.

    Regarding BoostTurboPressure (which I think you meant), it's pressure, so it's Pa (SI unit for pressure). Nearly all units you use in the car files are SI units. The skip barber in devmode is mostly commented, so that line has this for example:

    BoostTurboPressure=(250000,50000) // base desired boost pressure, multiplier by EngineBoost setting

    In addition, there's a modding section here where you could (and should!) ask these sorts of questions. And if you ask one thing per thread, and name it sensibly, you'll help anyone else wondering the same thing.

    Tools for modding is fair enough, though rF2 is more aimed at real data, and people with real data will probably work out ways to streamline this process. rF1 was easier to play around with figures and give it a go, and make something that 'feels good' without necessarily having much basis in the real world. But it's true, once you've made a spreadsheet (or whatever else you might use) that then allows you to type in a number or two and generate the various parameters, it is easier to then play around. So valid point.
     
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  3. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Thinking in the future it is clear that hybrid systems will become standard one day and maybe completely replaced by electrical motors in 10-20 years.

    I think it is important therefore to implement a second engine ready for the typical electrical requirements. Fuel should be replaced by charge and its value would be altered when braking. The braking effect when non powered and charging battery should be similar to the effect of retention of a regular engine.

    Both engines would provide an additive torque. IMO here resides the biggest change to be made. A proper transmission model should be used. Clutch, differential, gearbox should be correctly modeled in order to properly simulate hybrid cars.

    A bit offtopic I would like to talk about actual implementation of hybrid systems. The three mentioned categories are pretty much the only cases where hybrid systems are officially racing among main ones.

    Unfortunately the way the FIA has introduced these systems is a complete Fail in my opinion. In Lemans P1 category is struggling to survive with only 6 cars in the last edition and the 4th car winning the race after recovering the leadership in the last hour.

    In F1, they did not start so bad. Kers was a good idea and could be easily implemented in road cars. The biggest mistake was to limit its power and usable time. Engine and car manufacturers should have been free to furtherly develop and optimise it. The most stupid move however, was the introduction of MGU-H. A system that is very unlikely to ever be placed in a commercial car. Historically trying to use the heat wasted in this type of process to generate electricity is inefficient and expensive. Wasted heat is typically used for secondary processes where heating is the basic use. However, it is clear that people making decisions in the FIA are not very knowledgeable at anything.

    Finally, Formula E. What is that? Apart from the audience attending the events in the cities where they are hold, does anybody watch this?
     
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  4. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    I´m with you Findla. All valid points. There where several discussians about that in this forum.
    But I wouldn´t hold my breath. Development is awfully slow with rF2 and we have to reckon that something like ERS/hybrid
    never ever comes to this sim (I hope I´m wrong here though!).
    For modding tools: the community helped itself in the past. Check this site with a lot of helpful tools/calculators for all kind of
    physic things:
    http://meetme.bplaced.net/rF2_onlineTools/

    Spaskis: I would watch Formula E! But motorsport has a big problem with making the events/series accessable for the public in my opinion. At least here in germany the coverage of motorsport on TV is really bad.
     
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  5. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    Below is what I found from some old mod dev upgrade.INI file lying on my HDD. The code is commented out so obviously it doesn't work. As it says in the comment, the issue is to get the game to limit the per lap use to simulate how the real battery works. I think it needs quite a bit of work still.

    //UpgradeType="KERS"
    //{
    // UpgradeLevel="KERS"
    // {
    // Description="Using KERS by default. This is experimental and obviously we have no proper way to limit use of 6.7s per lap and re-charging."
    //
    // HDV=[ENGINE]
    // HDV=EngineBoostRange=(0, 1, 2)
    // }
    //
    // UpgradeLevel="OLD No KERS"
    // {
    // Description="Regular Boost Maps."
    //
    // HDV=[ENGINE]
    // HDV=EngineBoostRange=(0, 1, 5)
    // HDV=EngineBoostSetting=4
    // HDV=BoostEffects=(0.0, 0.01, 0.052)
    // HDV=BoostTorque=-0.00365
    // HDV=BoostPower=0.000077
    // }
    //}
     
  6. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    397 should consider building a generic f1 car based on current with an update each year ( based on the current )
    with a point from Dev's that it isn't an exact match ( to avoid people picking fault by comparing )

    just made to be a good all round f1 style sim-experience
    as the 2012 ISI formula masters which is a great sim car

    this sim-car would be the obvious go to choice for leagues & the many f1 enthusiasts

    ERS inbuilt even in a basic workable form
     
  7. Findla22

    Findla22 Registered

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    Oh my god, hugely thanks for sending me this web page. It has a tool to modify TGM values like I dreamed in the first message of this post :D
     
  8. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    Happy to help!
     
  9. x2611

    x2611 Registered

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    Good question, I'm downloading the f1asrleague F1 2018 mod as I write. Shame ERS is not simulated.
    This begs the question, how then is the paid ISI Formula-E simulated properly?

    It's all supposedly electric. Hmmm?
     
  10. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    The game does not support 2 engines in the same car, this is why you can have an EV, but not a hybrid for now.
     
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  11. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    Er... Me? :p
     
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  12. Pales

    Pales Registered

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    Completely agree, we need some form of hybrid. All we need now is LMP1-H cars and the game would be unbeatable.
     
  13. x2611

    x2611 Registered

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    Thank you Will, That explains it then and makes sense. Hopefully the "for now" is short lived :)
     
  14. Daniele Vidimari

    Daniele Vidimari Registered

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    Me too, great fun, i can't wait to see the Gen 2 cars on track!
     
  15. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    People hate it for the sound and nothing else. Which is annoying.
     
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  16. Leandros

    Leandros Registered

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    It's 2019, and rFactor 2 development has been picked up again. Is there any new desire to add ERS systems? I'd love to race LMP1 or modern F1 cars in rFactor 2.
     
  17. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    A modern unofficial generic f1 car with these new modern features even in a basic form
    Would be great
     
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  18. Steve Olden

    Steve Olden Registered

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    the game would not need to support 2 engines in one car to do this, it's only a bit of boost.
    I doubt PC2 supports 2 engines in one car either, yet that has at least 2 types of hybrid system. Some cars use the boost built up as soon as it's there and others you have to press a button to use it when you want..

    when brake is applied and variable 'A' <> (max boost level) increase variable 'A' until maximum boost is reached.
    If button 'B' is pressed make car go faster, reduce variable 'A' and make whinney electric engine noise until variable 'A' =0..
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  19. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    If you want it done properly it has to be with 2 engines. If you want a simple boost then go play PC2, it's that simple.
     
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  20. Krevett62

    Krevett62 Registered

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    This!
     

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