Latest Roadmap Update - March 2018!!!

@DrivingFast No, although I used your post as a starter for mine, it doesn't mean I'm trying to say you're wrong about something.

 

Ok.

 

Lets say SLOWMOTION got the data of laserscanned Spa. Lets say that he already modded Spa but now wants to mod again but this time using laserscanned data.
Which one you would choose?
The outstanding track with fake bumps or the outstanding track with the exactly surface of some iconic track?
How much time he could save with this data on his hands and work in better performance and visuals?

 

I think we all agree races and endurance series are the strong point of rf2,
the WEC license is my opinion out of range given the stables I can not imagine the price!
on the other hand there are other fields endu maybe more realistic, once again I specify nothing to know at the price of car or championship licenses!
ELMS/ALMS, Open GT, IMSA, VdeV, etc...not to mention the historic championship!
personally I think the priority and online matchmaking is probably the hardest to implement but the most urgent!!
all the series of "Rookies" until "Pro" are already there !!
they can be more varied than iracing with a motivating "career" system to climb the online competition ladder!
around me a lot are on iracing just for the matchmaking they are just waiting for the same thing on rf2 to get back on it!
I know that I push open doors and that S397 does not need me to know
but personally I would put 100% of the squad on matchmaking competition / UI
and after I would complete the current series to make the championships, GT3, FE (just tracks), Proto, and track known as Sebring, SPA, Le Mans, etc.

Here is my point of view

 

good laser tracks totally rock
There’s no comparison

Makes zero difference if one intends to drive the real life version or not
The quality of a good laser track is light years ahead

With the genuine respect to those that currently don’t believe so -you will in time I’m sure
If you’ve not practiced on quality lasered tracks then I understand you’ll know no different

The Sim racing community expect laser tracks now & have done pretty much since 2015 ( apart from some users of rf2 & automobilsta that know no different )

 

im not so sure there Adrian. Ive played a few in AC and the like and its not like theres a huge mountain of difference - ok some tracks aren't that great, but well put together ones aren't that far off. If its a case of 1 Scanned track or 2-3 well done tracks, give me more non scanned.

I seem to think the need for VR has overtaken the need for scanned tracks!

Laser scanned tracks are overrated!

 

The only thing I like about laser scanned tracks is the corners and track boundary’s,so when you use the same track in different sims,the corners are all familiar.
I’m not that fussed about the surface detail really,as long as they aren’t flat and lifeless,or over done with bumps,unless of course they are supposed to be that way.

A great mod track is on par with laser scanned if the layout is close to each other,imho,there are some where elevations are overdone,but even then that adds a new challenge.

I’m fine with any well made track,as long as it is,well,well made.

I was an iracer before going to other sims,so all I knew was laser scanned tracks.

I’d rather race on a mod made monico than no monico at all

Oh and of course you then have repaves etc which render the whole point of laser scanning mute,because devs are reluctant to re scan or re purchase the updated data so you end up with an outdated tracks Ala iracing

This argument will last for ever,so the bet solution is to have dev made non laser,mod made non laser but also dev made laser scanned tracks,caters to Everyone and every track then.

Ala rf2

 

I think the problem is people comparing poorly optmized laser scanned tracks (sometimes just conversions from other games) with top modders works without laserscanned data
Pick any modder (from the begginers to the top team) in the world and ask to him to make the same track 2 times. One with laserscanned data one without.
10/10 times the laser scanned version will be the choosen one
Think about time used to research data about some track particularities, elevation changes, etc and imagine this worktime being used to optimize performance and visuals...

 

When the Kartsims released I immeadiately felt all the "awesomeness" of the laser scan.
I could ride kerbs without any fear and the FFB was different from the old ISI karts.

...Then I ran the Kartsim on ISIs old Quebec track and realized the difference was the kart .

But a non laser scan track feels like a lot of finger prints on a blu-ray.
It makes you really anxious .

 

Nah, the sim racing community expects quality tracks. That's it. Kunos released Zandvoort a year or two ago without laser scan and it took a while before anyone even noticed it, only when they were told it was not laser scanned did the complaints start.

Presumably Botniaring and these smaller tracks are all for free or at least I'd be very surprised if they put a random track that nobody knows about as DLC. S397 is among the only sim studios left that produce any content at all for free. Free content like Botniaring or Zandvoort naturally will not be laser scanned, that's an economical impossibility.

 

It was hilarious when this happened, the track went from best ever for weeks to trash in 10 seconds because people were told it was not laser scan.

 

I'm really surprised when I read this stuff :

Contrast Immersion (here VR) VS Realism (here real tracks with real data tracks), and conclude that we have a preference/priority for immersion in the face of realism
.......

I have a hard time understanding.

Why choose the only "hardcore simulation", while all other simulations do better in terms of immersion/ergonomics/stability-bugs/performance ... why bother ?

And yes RF2 improves a little on these areas after 5-6 years.

 

I was about to say exactly the same thing. Zandvoort came out and everyone was raving about how good it was. Then they said it wasn't laser scanned and suddenly it became a pile of horse dung.

They believed it was laser scanned until told otherwise. The addon Donnington for AC is the same: Not laser scanned, but you'd be certain it was.

So you're saying those who don't think laser scanning is the absolute best are idiots? Many of us have driven the laser scanned tracks of iRacing and AC.

The laser scanned tracks in KartSim could have been done by a top modder.

 

Funny that this topic also results in a discussion about laser scanned or not. "To scan or not to scan?"

Something else on that matter; the track can be perfect (scanned or not) but in order to feel everything like it should be.....the CAR has to be exactly like the real thing; every movement, every component strength, every play or lack thereof, every mounting, every millimeter of length, width and position, every spring rate, every shock rate, every torsion parameter, every degree of turn in all directions and I can go on for hours.
If thats not right; the perfect track still doesn't feel like it should do in that particular car.

And than -as I said before- people drive "helicopter view", assist all on, no fuel consumption, no tire degradation, little track in the corner to see where they are going, "driving line" on and steering with a keyboard
They MUST have laser scanned because it is so real, but drive like that........ (not all, I know, but the biggest shouters probably most)

 

I bet you can build in a real car 2 different spring/damper from 2 differernt manufactor, and set them to same spec, and the car will feel different. It´s an illusion that you just need same numbers to get same behaviour, and it´s ridicolous to believe that some coarse numbers which are entered in a sim model which match some real numbers will result in a somewhat same behaviour.
Unless we talk about easy stuff like engine power, gear and topspeed.
Usually modelling goes the other way around anyway: You have a recorded a real situation and you tweak your model numbers so long until you reach the measured and recorded state. The problem: You reach ONE state, that does not mean that your model will work out another recorded 2nd state in different situation in same exactness.
Complex aerodynamics are not simulated anyway. Full structural deformation of any mechanical part? Forget about it. Tire deformation? Yes something is calculated, is the result somewhat real? Noone knows.

 

I completely agree with you mate.
But thats my whole point; the car can't be 100% exact in game. So whats the point in a perfect track if the car is not right? "As close as possible" is the best thing and changing dampers will make the car feel different, but in game it will need more adjusting; softening them will probably have a different effect.

So; the car has to be perfect too in order to get the perfect feel on a perfect track

 

See? We've gone full circle back to GPL. The project that started 'realism.' There were folks who lauded GPL's never seen before car accuracy, yet drove as if flying behind the car suspended by some kite. I have never driven on a laser scanned track, but I can understand the benefits. I have seen many versions of tracks over the years and can easily feel the ones that are superior. But I do not KNOW if I would recognize a laser scanned track just by driving it. I won't sit here now, and say Bot the Ring is crap or Kylie's Lhama is Shite.. I will drive them, in a car that may be accurate but one I've grown familiar with and use my senses to judge the quality. Not some label placed upon the product prior to my ever experiencing it. The latest VIR is not scanned,(that I am aware of anyway) but very very enjoyable due to both the actual track and the skill of the providers. You can tell me there is a better VIR out there, but if I can't access it then it's just El Dorado lying somewhere over the unreachable horizon. I'll take and hopefully enjoy what I can. I won't disparaged the efforts of those who brought it to me. I joined rF2 users very late after a long dive into GTR2, but I came when big changes began happening. I am forever mystified that the progress made is NEVER enough especially when MORE PROGRESS is announced and being worked on. For those who insist ONLY on laser scanned tracks, I see your point and hope you find much much enjoyment at Sebring and only Sebring until another effort surfaces.

 

Not trying to be offensive but this post is a typical case of half knowledge and it leads to another unnessecary rant, that propably stresses people more than it should. Mind you, the work on the March started far long before S397 even took over from ISI (something like 2012) and I have been waiting so long to be finaly able to drive that car. Given the fact that Mauricio Leiva and PIXSIM have been working on that car for so lang just leaves me with confidence that it'll be a masterpiece. Thinking about Mauricio's modeling ventures I can only dream of what might be next up for future cars from 1975/1976. Maybe the M23?

To put it simple: people shouldn't be worked up about something like roadmap that simply gives an insight on what's going on behind the scenes. If you only consider VR the sole big thing that was delivered by S397, then you have incredibly high demands, that I personaly don't see matched by any developer out there or you simply missed everything else, like DX11 for example. It has been discussed pretty open why things take longer as expected (especialy with the new UI) and it shouldn't be something of concern when developers fix bugs that they find during beta testing, even if it leads to delays. Everything else would be a concern. It is also great to see the community getting more involved.

 

What we can say is that in realism in a broad sense, we can quite easily say that certain things have more or less crucial impacts on the final realism :

Yes, the physics engine and the car (if possible with true data perfectly used in the modding process) are more important than the physical quality of the track (real data in an ideal world), but also realroad, etc.

On the other hand, to say that the interest of using real real and precise data for the modding of cars and circuits is ............... in short you see what I think about it.

What is the point of using the most realistic, realistic public simulation of the market, the most realistic, if it is to want to stop at the least concerning the realism of the content ?
And what is the best physics engine for if it is not accompanied by adequate content for it to be really exploited ?
In 2018, we can hope better, no ??