The characteristics of the ideal simulation according to the users of Rfactor 2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dadaboomda, Sep 27, 2017.

  1. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    I think it is useful for us to give the characteristics of the ideal simulation. That these characteristics are prioritized according to what motivates the users of rfactor 2:

    Some like hotlaps and play a lot offline, others only play online and have very specific expectations. Others are very interested in graphics while for others there is almost only the FFB, the physics and the quality of the content of the cars that counts. Others are mainly interested in the quality of the algorithms that determine the weather, aquaplaning, realroad, gum on the track and these effects, aerodynamics etc.

    Everyone has good reason to prefer this or that characteristic. If you allow me, I will give mine and the "prioritized" according to the degree of importance that I grant them.

    I add that in the absence of ideal simulation in 2017, obviously according to my criteria rfactor 2 is for me the best simulation of the market. I therefore thank ISI / Studio 397 for allowing me to experience this simracing experience, especially concerning the FFB and the physics and the quality of the cars.


    TOP 1) Physics of cars

    - Although already very good, improve the tire model to keep a big lead over the other simulations (yes, yes, we all want your success).

    - Improve the other elements of physics (I leave the detail of this element to the specialists)

    TOP 2) Further improve the FFB [if possible].
    Congratulations the FFB is already excellent !

    TOP 3) Quality of cars made by ISI / Studio 397:

    - For now apart from one or two, the quality is exceptional (maybe I'm wrong, but I think modded cars do not match yours in terms of physics and FFB). While letting the modding allow us to ride with other cars, the more Studio 397 cars got better (very high quality, thank you).

    - The variety of cars is very important, they have to have all the rain tires, it is necessary to update the old cars first before creating new ones (tires, chassis flex, directx 11 [secondary for me]) , create one or two traction like the Civic and one or two 4WD.

    4) Rain :

    - Create an algorithm to manage aquaplaning, improve rain tires if possible and include them in all existing and future cars. [the graphics of the rain you are doing are really beautiful, thank you. Nevertheless from my point of view it is secondary].

    5) Tracks :

    - Tracks physics :
    Laser scanned tracks with as much detail as possible on the road so that it is really optimal to drive with cars that have high quality physics (in my opinion all the interest of rfactor 2).

    - Track choice:
    Tracks creation takes time (which is normal) and Studio 397 forms a small team so it is essential to make relevant choices. In my opinion, the relevant choices are the GP tracks and the Nordschleife (the ultimate in car passion, a very popular track, the best track in the world for hotlaps and for training: remember that many of your users play offline !!!!).

    6) Real road :

    -Improve the impact of the gum according to the conditions, erasure of the gum, formation and evaporation of the water, humidity, temperature etc.)

    7) Graphics:

    7.1 - Graphic optimization :
    With equal visual quality to directx 11 compared to directx 9, there must be a performance at least equal : this is absolutely not the case (believe me dear possessors of powerfull graphics cards). The medium or medium+ computer put the graphics in ultra+ when it was directx 9. Now with directx 11, a medium+ computer is completely outdated. This is not desirable because the competition is much better: on Assetto Corsa, a medium+ computer allows to put graphics full ultra with a perfect fluidity (sorry for comparison, and yes I noticed that we are in beta directx 11).

    7.2 - Graphic quality: improve the shadows and especially the performances related to the shadows because it is really the worst graphic adjustment for the performance) and of course a global improvement for which I truly trust you.

    VR: It is not for me but it seems essential for some users and some future customers. You took it into account, very well.

    8) Improvement of head and engine physics

    - Improve in terms of quality but also need to be able to gain them in intensity via the IU (for me it’s important).

    9) Improvement of sounds :

    - For immersion, it is important. I think of all the sounds we hear constantly (rolling noises, air, passing through the grass and in the sand, suspensions, chassis etc. I find the sounds of the vibrators not bad at all.
    For accidents it would require a more pronounced sound and the current sound is heard only once in four.

    10) Weather / conditions :
    - We have to be able to record these scripts and be able to choose finer settings.

    11) 4WD :

    - I do not know if rfactor 2 handles the 4WD but if it is not the case it is urgent that it is the case. Users of rfactor 2 must have access to all types of car.
     
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  2. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    1. Yes
    2. Agree, probably not much more real improvement possible.
    3. Yes
    4. Yes
    5. Yes. I would say laser scanned if it's paid DLC, free tracks can be non-laser scanned.
    6. Yes, especially the missing temperature part.
    7.1 Performance is within 5-10% of DX9 with post FX OFF, but you need Nvidia 1000 series GPU for that (or 900 at least). 600/700 series have -25% in DX11, see the graph I made here. AMD I don't know, but AMD usually does better in newer games. In my opinion, many performance issues relate to remains of old gMotor engine, especially the high PCI Express usage, which can't be solved with DX11 alone.
    7.2 Yes, shadows especially.
    8. Yes, something like a "realistic" head physics option. The current ones are remains from rF1 when there was no VR etc.
    9. Yes, better environment sounds, I agree.
    10. Yes
    11. Maybe
     
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  3. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    4wd works correctly, you can ajust the power distribution between front and rear wheel in setup, the P1 cars of URD PX mod are 4wd.
     
  4. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Thank's, that is a really good news. So please Studio 397, one 4wd. A WRC/R5 will be great. Just an idea.

    EDIT : it is important to train with tractions and 4wd, not only with propulsion (according to me). Civic is very great, clio not enough powerfull on the nords !
     
  5. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    I agree with everything you said fully,except for the part and dx9/11.

    For a lot of users it is equal or close to it in performance,with better looking graphics,games become ever more demanding,expecting old hardware to keep up is not realistic,as time and requirements advance,so to the need for us to upgrade our hardware,it's just a fact of life.
     
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  6. Mulero

    Mulero Registered

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    Maybe for some ... For the vast majority, performance in DX11 is below or well below the DX11 version. In my case 30% less.
     
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  7. filippu

    filippu Registered

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    The characteristics of the ideal simulation ? a finished one.
    Not a "this is broken" or "that will be finished in 7 years, maybe".
     
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  8. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Oh no....

    You just said the truest phrase on this forum lol! But the fact is that FOR THE TIME (I insist on for the moment) rf2 is the best simulator for the true enthusiasts of automobile and ISI control despite these very many defects remains of a certain exceptional point of view (FFB / physics) .

    But I want to say something. When we bought rfactor 2 5 years ago we knew that rf2 was in BETA. But seriously someone would dare to say that it is normal and acceptable that rf2 is 5 years later still in BETA and totally incomplete ??? Some say "we paid a long time ago and our money has already been used, so we have nothing to say". How to think like that? When buying a product whatever the minimum is it is complete and afterwards one can judge of the quality. I do not make sense?

    Nevertheless I keep waiting and wanting their success (I must be scato). If just ISI could watch and take a little bit into account this kind of topics ...
     
  9. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    I said about the money being used because your expecting rf2 to overhauled without them first generating revenue.

    Do you expect your car to be repaired for free by the manufacturer after 5 years,no you pay for the repairs.

    Isi s397 need to generate the money to repair this sim,it's quite simple
     
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  10. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    How do you you know the majority has less performance,and again if they do it's their hardware that's a factor also
     
  11. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Hi, I didn't speak about what you said ;)

    I did not target anyone in particular !
     
  12. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    I think he is right, unfortunately
     
  13. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/problems-and-forces-of-rf2-studio-397.57873/

    This thread you started on Tuesday was locked yesterday. Reopening a new one with similar topics might not be positively perceived by the moderator who locked it.

    I am against locking threads and I am not saying it was correct or not. If no insults or personal attacks take place debate should always be welcome. However, I would have asked for clarification about the reason why it was locked before reposting.

    If you did so, nothing else to comment and let's debate.
     
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  14. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Hello Spaskis.

    I find it totally excessive that my topic has been locked.

    In creating this new topic, I tried:

    - to be as constructive as possible
    - not to create unhealthy debates (on the contrary)
    - to create a constructive debate
    - to avoid twisting Studio 397: I said that the best simulation of the world was that with the best FFB and physics and that precisely it is rf2. I also said several times that I could only be thankful to them and that the car content was of exceptional quality.

    I think I have nothing to reproach me and I think this topic has a real usefulness.

    Really concerning the other topic I find it is exaggerated to have it locked: there were reviews made at Studio 397 (legitimate reviews I think), but they are hard to hear probably.
     
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  15. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    What is the point of this thread?
    I am curious who are you talking to? To players on the forum or to developers who are aware of all this?
     
  16. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    You need to explore existing content more to understand what rF2 is already capable of. Have you tried Gerald Jacobson's rFactor 2 Weather Tool (https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/rfactor2-weather-tool.37366/ )? Have you driven Slow Motion's Palatov D4 (https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/palatov-d4-build-1-65.55743/ )?
     
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  17. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Your claims are ligit. I don't think your previous thread should have been locked.

    However it was. All I am just saying is that maybe if you had started a conversation with Coutie trying to clarify things, the consideration of locking the other one might have been reviewed. Opening a new one can be perceived as a defiant attitude.

    Everytime I got a warning from Tim or Christopher I have always tried to clarify which was the problem. I don't like being either warned or banned.

    Showing interest on what others have perceived as an offense or something negative is a sign of respect which I think devs take into account.

    It was just an advice I am sure your goal was not defying Coutie's action.

    Sorry for sounding harsh. It is just an advice. I guess the way I communicate is sometimes very direct. I'm an engineer!
     
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  18. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Reading the posts in the forum lately is no surprise devs and mods are getting tired of reading some things.
    We like it or not things dont happen by magic in coding. Especially when something is a mess to begin with.
    It's not a studio made of AIs.
     
  19. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    - to answer you I do not think that studio 397 are really aware of all that I have marked (priorities)

    - I hope to be heard by studio 397 not only for me but because I want the success of rf2 and studio 397
    - I do because unfortunately think that the development priorities are bad (I know, who am I to propose things that I think more intelligent ??? a user, but a fan of rf2 anyway!)
    - I had hoped that other users do the same (to be heard and can be contributing to the success of rf2 which is compromise, you're aware of it)
    - I have a benevolent intention to 397 studio (maybe I should not get involved?)
     
  20. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Will, the question for me is not the acceleration of work and development: oh yeah they just just men. The men who made the best ffb and physics .... !!

    I am talking here only of priorities.
     

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