Latest Roadmap Update - August 2017

This is not true at all. Marcel was already worked on the game long before the S397 announcement.
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/rf2-steam-workshop-functionality-explained.113517/
"rF2: Steam Workshop Functionality Explained" from Nov 12, 2015

Also: Christopher Elliot, Tim Wheatly, Michael Borda and who knows who else from the current team.

The point is. S397 not just stepped into the light last September and opened the source files for the first time at that time. Some of them already were in the ISI team. And as you can see some of them was already helped the ISI team.

 

What of RaceRoom Racing ?

 

How could they do this for opponent cars when it isn't even implemented in the car selection screen in alot of cars ?

 

Approximately 75 official Raceroom servers and 255 user-created servers for a total of about 330 servers. About 95 of the servers are locked (private).

I had forgotten Raceroom added the ability for anyone to run their own server circa 2015!

 

Exactly what I mean, I hope they will reach the same level of confidence and attention to details Reiza acquired during years, I am not in a hurry but would be great to see some "little" things being worked since now...

 

Emery, you know full well the primary reason why most people are not 'already there' at iRacing. It's a question of cost. As well as $99 for an annual subscription, you are paying $12 per car and $15 per track; and eventually, you are likely to need/want 20+ tracks and 10+ cars to compete in the official series. Anyone having been a member for 5 years, they could have easily spent in excess of $1000 for the privilege.

As I've stated many times, I started racing offline with F1C 99-02 and then got online with rFactor1 and rFactor2. But there's a lot of reasons behind why I basically stopped using rF2, and it isn't because I am "shilling" for iRacing which is what you are trying to imply. I also own the following:

Sector3 RaceRoom (though, no DLC content)
Reiza Automobilista (all DLC content)
Kunos Assetto Corsa
SMS Project Cars
Codemasters F1 2016

Now, on none of these do I compete online. I use them all for offline 'driving' as an alternative to doing everything within iRacing, as much for a change as anything. None of the above offer any sort of organized online racing. Codemasters (and I think AMS) upload your best laps to their servers, and some have the ability to show the 'ghost' car to beat a laptime. I don't time trial or time attack on iRacing; I did have a GPLRank back in the day. But my primary interest is not in doing offline driving, AI racing, career modes or competitions like WFG (which I had zero interest in entering, knowing it would eventually be 40 people in a dick-waving exercise just like iRacing WDC is). I've never taken part in any of the competitions Sector3 have done. No, my main interest is in organized online racing and preferably not in closed-participation leagues.

I'd left rF2 behind several years ago. I'm potentially back in the fold now that S397 have taken over if they set off in the right direction. But as I've stated, I understand they have priorities to bring the offline capability of rF2 back up to 'modern standards'. That won't be enough to get me to convert; competitive online racing is where it's at.

iRacing have lots of problems with their simulation. Mainly, its in the physics and especially the tire model and its interaction with track surface and weather conditions. I can go for about 6 months with that before I finally get wracked off enough with it that I stop racing. iRacing improve the NTM about every 2-3 years, and at this stage, there's been virtually nothing done to it for road cars in a long while given they are introducing Dirt, which is of no interest to me. It lacks dynamic lighting. Their collision model/physics is also terrible. And they continue to push selling more and more content, when I've realized that in fact I rarely use most of what I have bought and I've been paying (through the nose) for them to continue developing - but increasingly they are not developing the sim in the way I want and with the priorities I have. I got myself a forum ban for criticizing their CEO openly about those things once too often.

There's an opportunity here for some other developer to come along and challenge iRacing in their online dominance.

 

I thought all of those devs you have listed were part of the Isi team,so who exactly have you listed that are part of the s397 team.
From what I read the Isi team were taking a back seat.
If What you say is correct then there's no new devs come into rf2 with the s397 takeover.

 

Quite a few of the of ISI staff moved over to Studio397 to work on RF2.

 

Uhm, you know you can check this when you exit rF2 by watching the credits? This is a quick screenshot (recognize anyone, eh?), so there's a few more names, like Tim Wheatley and my apologies for missing anyone...

 

I am not sure that all the names there are part of Studio397. I believe some of them belong to ISI staff.

I think the relationship between ISI and S397 is healthy though and are willing to collaborate for some core areas of the simulation engine.

If I am not wrong Michael Juliano was 100% involved in ISI's Rogue System.

Giovanni Romagnoli (4th world) has implemented VR but I am not sure if he is involved any more after looking at his profile. He had formerly collaborated in VR implementation for AC and appears to be a freelance.

 

Cost is not the sole reason. If people want something badly enough, they'll afford it. Look at the number of people springing for direct drive wheels or VR as an example. Look at the number of people who buy overpriced coffee 2+ times daily. Look at the people who smoke...

You're forgetting that maybe half the people buying AC aren't interested in organized racing. They want to sample supercars, they want to go drifting, they want to hang out with buddies, and they don't want any stinking rules. Other sims and other reasons: they want karts, they want gravel, they want hillclimbs, they want rallies, they want big trucks, they want offroad desert racing, they want historic cars on historic tracks that can't be laser scanned, they want weather, they want day/night cycle, and, most of all, they want CHOICE OF EXPERIENCE even if that means not getting to compete with other people in a centrally organized championship series.

This is why I say you have an iRacing-centric view. You're so focused on what iRacing does well and how you'd like to see that in other sims that you totally ignore how other people aren't interested in iRacing at all for reasons other than cost.

 

Yes, I was surprised to see Juliano mentioned. But, as you say, it is evidence of a healthy relationship between ISI & S397.

 

See here for an interview last year with Tim, includes more details on staff:
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/exclusive-isi-studio-397-rfactor-2-interview-part-1.126263/

 

Emery, you provide a lovely long list of all sorts of sub-niches which on their own are not supportable. Even if you try to somehow cobble them together, they still aren't viable. And for some, like drifting or dirt rally/rallycross, there are already many options available on Steam.

There are many online options that don't involve championships and organized racing, that are more social in nature. Building that requires different sensibilities and capabilities to be built, than those we already know about, and the likelihood of success is slim. It's a shot in the dark to build something you don't know if there's a market for it or not. S397 don't have the wherewithal to make that sort of bet, and it's not why they did the deal with ISI.

If I look at Reiza, for instance, they had marginally viable games for Brazillian stock cars and Trucks. They ended up having to bundle all of those together into AMS. We know they had a license to produce a Senna game, but it didn't happen. They didn't have their own development studio - they employed Luminis to build stuff for them, and that has all gone away now. They have added many different flavors of historical F1 and shipped non laserscanned historical tracks, which iRacing haven't done and are not likely to do. There's a lot of overlap with what Reiza have done with what S397 could target in my opinion. They took a crowdfunding option but its not clear to me that will be viable going forward.

Sector3 started with similar technology but have built a developer and content group. They've got Simbin working on a different graphics engine for them for the future (meaning they don't have to do their own from the ground up). They've got licenses as well for several genres and tie-ups with manufacturers. They've done enough to be viable with their own tech, and are known to be building online race event and series capability.

AC have built a development team and good relationships, and have attracted across the modders who used to build for the ISI sims. They have also expanded into consoles, via partnerships, something S397 don't have access to right now. AC have an ability to produce car content but less so for tracks; they've got road cars/supercars and can do drift. No idea what their future plan is as regards online.

SMS built a formidable dev team and content team and are now direct competitors to GT and Forza on consoles, along with their traditional PC roots. It began with a major crowdfunding effort, but the success of that means they are not so reliant on that now. I'd say there's a fair chance SMS could branch into other titles/areas. pCARS already began life as a very varied platform with both racing and non-racing formats (road cars/supercars etc. and open road).

Codemasters have always had both developers and content creators, and have released a large number of varied titles (F1, Dirt etc.) based on their tech for PCs and consoles. S397 have tech that could be applied in similar ways, but they don't have the depth or strength to do so. And building it as a set of niches within niches in my opinion also isn't viable.

The issue here is whether S397 should continue with the open platform or be much more focused on what it is they want to build. I'd argue the open platform wasn't a success, and had almost driven the prior company to be non-viable. I think S397 need to decide what areas they want to get really good at, and build for that. Maybe it's what I would like to see, an online organized racing competition platform like iRacing. None of the other devs have that; but they've all got otherwise direct competition to what S397 have as well as access to the much larger console market. Maybe its something different, in which case I'll wish them well and go back to what I had been doing. It's their choice.

 

Maybe s397 can make the open framework work along side the online structure too,from what I gathered Isi failed due to not giving enough info for modders to do their thing,they had to figure it out by trial and error,so if s397 can give modders that info along with some sort of standardisation,modding can still be viable here.

 

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Modding never will be viable.
Modding is something that vocal people like to throw around like something essential feature everywhere in the gaming community.
But the truth is if the game can't hold on its own then it won't hold its own with modding. Example: rfactor 2.
People aren't buying games just because of mods.

 

I think modding for cars is much more difficult to do properly, compared to tracks. A track is mainly artist work.

Also an ugly track can be completely functional but a badly done car hurts further the platform because it doesn't provide a good feeling.

 

Counter example : rFactor.
I find it hard to believe people would have massively bought it to run a Kodi at Toban, or even the rare licensed cars at the poorly made F1 tracks.
However people like me bought it for the F1 1979 mod, and if it wasn't it, it would have been the CART Factor mod, or the Touring Car Legends mod, or one of the historic F1 mod, etc...
A bad game with modding will still be a bad game, but a good game with poor base content and no modding to improve that won't work either.

 

Times are changed, new generation of modders moved to well know titles, the old generation has less time for modding...this is basically why you see a lot of converts from other titles on rF2 and a lot of new scratch made models on AC...
I think rF2 needs to be a complete title with "support" for modding...the last one alone can't help too much...

 

@burgesjl I understand your post but you got a couple of things mixed up in it regarding some details on the groups/devs. In response to your last sentence, it looks like there will be focus on modern content (forget about old licenses and historic ISI-developed content) packaged into a couple of vehicles to make a grid, with the occasional track. How weather, offline championship and consistent AI will be implemented to support the content is unknown.