Latest Roadmap Update - August 2017

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Marcel Offermans, Aug 19, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. T1specialist

    T1specialist Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    163
    Hopefully there is a possibility to browse through the possible opponents with pictures and not just car/class names in one big list. And hopefully that list is better organized. Now in the current ui it just dumps everything in your face and you need to go through a lot of duplicates. Some kind of class based system where you just click a tag to add all gt3 class cars into a race would be better if that tag was not buried somewhere in the list.

    It would be even better if the tag system was like a folder tree so you could effectively sort by gt3, work by car brand to mclaren and then open the 650s and add all the skins you want under that by manually dragging them to the opponents list. The opponent filter list should also highlight the cars you have already added. Plus there should be an option to add one car skin twice.

    Plus I hope 397 does away with the way the lists currently scroll in rf2 ui. Everytime you minimize a selection in the car/track browser menu the list jumps to different position. It would be better if things stayed where they are so if you going down a list opening and closing each item on one line below other then only the items below the selection would move up and down and not the whole list.

    Tbh I'm a bit worried that 397 chose to show the opponent filter. It is basically the exact same thing from the current ui. There is a lot to do to improve that but I am not seeing any improvements. The fact they showed it makes me worried that they are not going change it. That's how it is going to be for the most part.

    The reason I think changing that would be important because one of the rf2 issues is how clunky the ui is to work with the get the car selection you want into a race AND how poorly rf2 lists the car content in that list. A bunch of text in a list with no way to sort or filter them is not just a huge missed opportunity but a sign that maybe the way we browser content (cars, tracks) is not going to change at all. Is it going to be the same list of text menu that has been there ever since rf1? I'm assuming the way classes and such are defined in .veh files is a massive obstacle that may prevent 397 doing much anything with those lists but even then it should be possible to sort that list in some way, any way.

    The backend stuff looks very nice. There are definitely lots of possibilities there but I hope it works in offline mode as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
    jkn87 and Guimengo like this.
  2. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    7,454
    Likes Received:
    4,370
    Why not incorporate stand alone workshops that display graphically what your setup changes are doing. Have a Windtunnel that shows the flow and effect of the downforce on the chassis. When the ride height or wings change, the colors of the indicated wind might shift to show balance/inbalance. We could have separate sections for tires, gears, engine etc. So instead of just making changes to numbers, we'd see some sort of result prior to heading to the track.
     
    Karei, marmagas and Guimengo like this.
  3. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    1,426
    I didn't notice about that!!! Really bad news.
    If less functional aspects of actual UI will be maintained, I don't understand the reason for changing the aesthetics behind.
     
  4. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,602
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    That picture of the ui looks just like the current one but rearranged,truthfully I'm not fussed about the ui,it does what I need it to,but like with everything else in life,everything can be improved.

    I don't see the benefit of having a 3D model of the car in the setup/garage page,you already know what you're clicking on, so I don't see any benefit from say the tyres being highlighted when you change the pressures.
    The only way to see the true effects of setup changes is through telemetry,plus a 3D model would be arcade looking imho,just like liveforspeeds model,I pay no attention to it when changing setting.

    One thing this sim is in desperate need of,is tooltips of what settings do,like hover over slow dampers with the mouse and it gives you a quick explanation.
    Plus the set up adjustments need to be more in depth,I see not one cars ride height changes in the garage when adjusting camber,suspension stiffness or tyre pressure,I'm truly baffled as to why this doesn't happen,also the diff setting are under the steering banner/sections,that puzzled me at first.
    The setup area need vast improvements for peopl to come here and take this sim seriously.

    Edit also what's badly needed is wear percentages for inner middle and outer,relying on just temps to set cambers isn't really enough for optimal settings or a serious simulation
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  5. mancslo

    mancslo Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    17
    And impruve some multiplayer funcionality too. And finaly: fix the freez problem, when somebady leave the server.
     
    F1 2004 likes this.
  6. Filip

    Filip Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    1,208
    Likes Received:
    937
    New look and feel is of course welcomed and needed.
    But...there is no mention of content management improvements in new UI.
    I hope something can be done about that and is not locked in rfcmp files.
    I mean... no disrespect but... how can font colour and size be such an issue but nobody sees a problem in a fact that you can not have two different tracks with same name in a game? Or the fact that there is no search function for content?
     
  7. TJones

    TJones Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    257
    @burgesjl
    About that little graph for gearing you suggested. This is a old screenshot from march roadmap update:
    [​IMG]


    I like the idea with tooltips in the setup section, but it should be possible to turn it off for experienced users.
    About the setup screen, something i like to see is a more realistic approach of rideheight setting.
    So rideheight changes using different springs, spring preload or pushrod length, and the resulting rideheight is a live measured value then. Remaining suspension travel (bump and rebound) should also be shown (important). Might be a bit more complex to implement though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  8. Karei

    Karei Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    73
    One thing that simracing is doing wrong, in my opinion, is how much the driver knows about the car before hitting the track. In real life, you know how long is the wheelbase, front and rear track, you know corner weights, center of gravity and so on. You have the engine dyno graph. The tyre makers give you suggestions. I could continue, but I think you know what I mean. However in simracing you go on track almost blind... unless if you are very very very skilled, if you know how to counter engineer the software or if you are lucky enough to own a manual guide of the real car. How nice it would be if the setup building had a revolution...
     
    Ernie, ECAR_Tracks, smbrm and 2 others like this.
  9. mermoid

    mermoid Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    27
    I am quite concerned about DX9 being discontinued at the end of the year because DX11 performance on triple screen with multiview is awful for me in comparison to DX9 (GTX 1070).
     
    Davvid likes this.
  10. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,346
    Likes Received:
    6,572
    @Karei Or come in and measure tyre wear in a few places across the tread, to help with setup. I think that was possible in the early-mid 90s in one of the indycar games.

    I'd like this sim to get closer to replicating real life, not start to mimic other games that are more popular. The people who turn away because of graphics or UI (largely) aren't the ones who are going to appreciate a sim anyway. On the other hand the real aficionados wouldn't mind an outdated looking and slightly clunky interface (as long as it's functional, like having most used settings in the game and not just stuck in files) if it fronted a better representation of actually going racing in a car.

    If the driving (and setup, yes) experience was a really good match for reality, there's a whole bunch of people that would jump in. And I bet that would include a heap of iRacers. But if this just remains rFactor with a better tyre and FFB model, we aren't going anywhere.
     
    Davvid, Ho3n3r, zi99y and 7 others like this.
  11. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,602
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    What is your cpu and motherboard,ram ????

    I have a gtx 1060 i5 4690k with triple 24" 60hz screens,yet dx11 runs sooo much better than dx9 for me,I'm baffled why some have issues with better hardware than me,so much so it leads me to belive it's a user issue,otherwise I should in theory be having poorer in game performance than you and others with better hardware,imho anyway.
     
  12. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,602
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    +100 to this,the setups here need to be way more in depth
     
    smbrm likes this.
  13. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Messages:
    851
    Likes Received:
    1,436
    No precision on the next GT3 or on the future of the online race/champ :(
     
  14. Karei

    Karei Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    73
    Speaking about iRacing, Tatuus built the FR2.0 2013 spec which is raced there. Now, their physics is pretty bad, the driving is unrealistic and Lando Norris confirmed that. I'd love for rFactor 2 to have a go at that car (FR2.0 is seriously misrepresented in simracing and I can't understand why).
     
  15. Gonzo

    Gonzo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    303
    Sure - its html ;). As long as you use scaleable icons such as fontawesome or other vector based icons, everything should be scalable to any high resolution why staying very sharp. I doubt they will add any lowres pixel based solutions, this would be foolish.
     
  16. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,220
    Likes Received:
    1,578
    I'd like sims to get closer to real life too, I watch a race like Spa 24 or Paul Ricard 1000km, Le Mans, get in the sim and none of them in the market give me that feeling like I'm racing there.
    Heck I wish a sim would tell me I have to wait hours for a setup change (and properly 3d animated) if that's what happens IRL :D (use the time acceleration key offline, online you are done for the session), that would be fun. Some kind of "first setup load" simulates how the car left the team shop or was done before the official session begins, etc. Ok ok, too much dream. But I'd pay serious money for a platform like that and wouldn't mind if it was not modable as long as there is a very big amount of content :p
     
    Karei likes this.
  17. stonec

    stonec Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    1,488
    Have you actually done systematic benchmarking and compared DX9 with DX11? DX11 has better graphics than DX9 (better AA, slightly better shadows, ambient occlusion). My view is, because DX11 has better graphics by default, I would say right now it's pretty much impossible to have much better performance in DX11 than DX9 like you claim. I have seen tens of users reporting their FPS in the DX11 vs DX9 performance thread, and no chart that I have seen have shown DX11 ahead of DX9. At best it has been around even.
     
  18. stonec

    stonec Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    1,488
    AFAIK many of those were third party mod projects. The NSX and C6 were Niels H. cars that were ported from rF1 and updated with rF2 tire model etc. Not sure ISI or the current guys did the conversion, so we might never see updates to those cars. If we do, they need to implement LODs and stuff like that, as they perform really badly on a big grid. Same with Loch Drummond, I think that was built by Alex Sawczuk who now works for Reiza.
     
  19. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2013
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    540
    I guess what I am trying to say is, the screenshots shown of the UI now show it to be much prettier, and possibly it has the existing information (and some that was hidden in files) exposed in more logical groupings, but other than this, it hasn't moved the conceptual process forwards at all.

    Fact: the most popular cars tend to be those with minimal numbers of settings you can change, and the simplest models. They also end up having good, close racing. Fact: fixed setup series (especially at iRacing) garner 3x to 5x more participants than to open setup series with the same vehicle.

    As regards setups, the Codemasters F1 series basically loads in an initial setup for a track that ought to be somewhat close. In effect, they say the engineers have taken the available data and run simulations and arrived at this as a starting point. For example, its a low downforce track with long straights, set the wings accordingly. So what you are doing after that, is merely tweaking a setup that should already be somewhat in the right direction. This is much more difficult to do here, because we have so many different car types and options/features. There are always complaints even in iRacing about it becoming iRaceEngineer instead, and we can clearly see that most people who drive sims don't want to spend huge amount of hours doing that. As others have said, it has reached the point now where most teams get some starting information from the manufacturer e.g. of tires, aeromaps etc. for the basic research having already been done. (An aeromap would tell you the effects of say front/rear rideheights and rake angles). We have none of this, so we start from whatever is the basic default every time (and this is true in iRacing as well, except where they give you different 'fixed' setups per car+track. That at least means, if you go to a new track, you have a 'library' of setups and can pick a couple to try from the tracks of the closest characteristics to the new one).

    pCARS2 apparently will have some sort of race engineer. I saw the description/promo for that, and all it does is take a question/answer format as a means to increment/decrement particular individual settings, such as wings or suspension settings. This is basic stuff - go faster, reduce the wing angle by one increment type of process. As far as I could tell, it didn't get close to having the 'setup chart' that probably most avid simracer fans would have on how to change damper settings to control entry or exit oversteer etc. One of the most difficult things with doing setups is actually to diagnose what your car is doing; am I getting oversteer on exit because I'm ploughing on the way in and still turning too late into the corner? That would be very advanced diagnosis/solution and I doubt we could get that far. But we can certainly get further than where we are.

    I downloaded a setup document from iRacing that someone wrote on coilbinding and damper bumpstops on the NASCAR cars. In order to describe what was happening, the author had to draw some simple example diagrams to explain what was happening; these were 2D drawings/pictures. I've got one on suspension toe settings and Ackerman as well. Same thing applies. My suggestion for 3D would be a perfect world, but ideally you'd want at least a 2D diagram, and preferably one that is animated. The coilbinding one showed how the coil when compressed with enough downforce would go solid (and showed at what point that happened for different spring rates). [The idea behing coilbinding is that you run softer springs but then at some point the suspension goes solid, and this is done at maximum contact patch of the tire, and to keep the nose/splitter sealed to the ground at the front]. It then showed how setting packers on the dampers would interact with that same settings. In this case, the damper and spring was not a coilover design so they were each independent lengths. The suspension travel was such that you could either activate the bumpstops on the dampers before you got to be coilbound, or the opposite. It's exactly this sort of graphical depiction of what is happening that we lack. 2D is fine; 3D would be ultimate and we know there are design tools modders use to create rF2 suspensions.

    Right now our only solution, you'd have to look at telemetry and then be able to figure out at what point the suspension coilbound or activated the bumpstops, by looking at the graphs. Really hard to imagine/picture this in your mind and connect the dots. But without it, you've got no picture of what the car is really doing and thus explain its behavior. Yes, I've reached the extent of suspension travel and that's what caused the back end to step out; so I need greater rideheight or stiffer springs; and I adjust rideheight by changing spring perch. In my mind its not enough to just keep clicking up/down and see if the results are faster, its much better to understand WHY and at least have some sort of directional roadmap of changing one thing and the effect you intend it to have.
     
    John likes this.
  20. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,602
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    Stonec
    I'm only reporting what happened to me,dx9 was and is unplayable for me,was a stuttering mess and i couldn't hold above 80 fps,dx11 is butter smooth and I'm holding above or around 120fps nicely.

    So because only the people who complain about dx11 shout the loudest and your experience between the api's is different to mine,your shouting bs.

    Ten people as you claim isn't enough to come to the conclusion that dx11 giving better performance is bs

    Ok that's fine,it don't bother me one bit,because dx11 gave me better graphics and more fps too boot,but above all I can now play rf2 because of dx11.

    Tell me how to do the benchmarking or what I need and I will do it when I'm back off holiday on Sunday,I'm sick of people hinting at I'm either making it up or I'm lying just because dx11 is better on my system
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page