Motorsport - my passion is being neutered?

Discussion in 'Real Racing Discussion' started by Bjørn, Jul 28, 2017.

  1. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    Honestly, I'm in shock by the state of what I see as the future of motorsport.
    Australian Supercars... You know those great, thumping 5 litre V8 monsters... Are going to be 3.6L V6 TT

    Porsche pulls out of top prototype racing. Leaving only Toyota and Toyota will remain laughing stock if they continue by themselves which results in the death of the fastest multiclass racing category with speeds matching F1 and Indycars.

    Mercedes quits DTM which is a huge part of their entire DNA. Leaving only BMW and Audi left in that category - when will they pull their plugs? I mean BMW could pull it soon because they have GT3 and GTE programmes to worry about with the M6 and the new M8 GTE + Formula E in 2018!

    Lets see, what else? Yes, Audi left LMP1 9 months ago for the benefit of a full Formula E programme.

    Porsche quits LMP1 for the benefit of Formula E.

    Mercedes quits DTM for the benefit of Formula E.

    What is Formula E? It's a racing series for full electronic cars. They run on battery. They have to CHANGE to a spare car in the middle of the race via a mandatory minimum-time-limited pit stop.
    They have something called a fan boost where the driver with the most interaction on twitter gets extra power for a limited period of time.
    The cars *just* exceeds 200 kph

    Why oh why is this chosen over the likes of heritage (Le Mans/endurance racing and DTM in this case).
    I can't believe global environmentalist policies are this strong. But I have no other explanation. Using *motorsports* for marketting and branding one as sustainable, green and not really cutting edge performance and speed anymore. I'm having really grim feelings about what is being promoted these days from my main passion which is spectacular motorsports.

    When will NASCAR be neutered to V6 TT or some other down-size act? What's going to happen when it eventually happens? Everything points towards it happening at some point.

    To say that I am saddened by the latest motorsport news is an understatement.

    Cheer me up please? Show me it's going to be okay?
     
  2. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    im sure its choices a lot of these teams would rather not make. I think with world economy etc etc to blame.. These companies teams are just trying to survive.

    However FE is a great series to watch despite the lack of sound, i think f1 and the like should take note of how to keep an audience..!
     
  3. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    There are a few things to check
    Diesel gate
    Cartel accusations in Germany
    P1H (or the class that can win the overall race) had only 4 manufacturers in 10 years, 2 of them from same group. The formula is a failure since forever
    DTM is too expensive for a local series and the decision to bring a new engine formula did not help
    Formula E looks "morally right" and it is cheap because nothing is being developed there despite the "bla bla bla technology 50 years ahead of its time". Give it freedom and you'll see unsustainable budgets in a year or 2 causing people to leave
    A series like Supercars have a lot of connection to the daily cars, V8 is not a reality they could keep for long.


    Now I wish DTM would go full Super GT already. Could merge with GT Open (for the GT3 class) and make it the Euro SGT with tire war and all that. :D and add a GT4 class too
     
  4. Daniele Vidimari

    Daniele Vidimari Registered

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    Personally i don't care what they have under the hood, mono-cylinder 90000cc, v16 7000hp or a electric engine, but i believe in the technological progress. Top series like F1 have a goal: develop new technologies for us, for our all-day cars, to keep our car efficient, safe and cheap. This is why i love F1 and Fe (and why i don't like Nascar for example).

    Yes, is sad to see manufacturers like BMW, Audi, Porsche, Mercedes quit the major motorsport classes, but the reason is: they are manufacturers, so they need to invest in new technologies for our future.
    If i want a fast car, why the hell should i buy a crazy 5.0 V8 petrol Mustang when with a small 1.6 V6 Turbo-Hybrid i can have more?
     
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  5. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    There has to happen A LOT to FE before it'll be anywhere near spectacular... To me these manufacturers are joining a gimmick. I will be amazed, absolutely stunned if it doesn't remain a gimmick within 2 years where they've all joined... 3.14.791 around La Sarthe is amazing. 220 kph top speed and swapping cars mid-race is not though. I simply don't see it change enough for the better fast enough so that it actually becomes a spectacular thing to behold.
     
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  6. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Things evolve. The future is electric. Car manufacturers don't want to invest money in technologies that are not appreciated by a wider general audience than motorsport fans.

    Some categories are failing to accept it. Some people are just to stupid to see it. Meanwhile all car manufacturers are going electric.

    When Ferrari identifies that electric GT sales will prevail among those who can afford it, F1 will finally change. Those who have the money to spend 200000 € in a car don't necessarily love the sound of a V12 engine.
     
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  7. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    Sound is just some flavour... I was at Le Mans in 2011 and it was absolutely mind-boggling standing in the right hand kink before Dunlop... A A mute diesel woozing by... The air rush was the impressive bit. The speed. Spectacular!
    All this is substituted for something that is just super inferior in every single regard IMO.
    I don't disregard the future... Electrics are coming - no doubt about it but I feel robbed, ridiculed because the switch is happening pre-maturely. Because as of right now the electric category is pretty unspectacular and unimpressive...
     
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  8. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    The future may be a forced electric route but it sure is a future I won't bother to watch on race tracks/tv or buy in sims :D
    Not that racing around the world will miss me anyway so who cares, this sport loses fans every new gen and electric isn't going to bring them back :D
     
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  9. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    All is moving to electric route, due to an improvvise feel of danger for the global situation, but it is too late, world will collapse and global apocalypse will be inevitable...if we will live enough to see all this we will be fortunate enough to see a new form of motosport...a fucking mad max death race glorious racing style cars!!! No engine limits, no car body rules, weapons, violence, everything will be a track, from wastelands to nuclearized cities!!! Woooohooooo!
     
  10. jayarrbee36

    jayarrbee36 Registered

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    It is a sad day indeed. The sport is clearly at a crossroads.

    Personally, I'm not interested in Formula anything (for me, open wheel racing died with Champ Car), but I've no real problem with the idea of all-electric GTs, touring cars or prototypes. Very likely that IS what's going to happen, so we either make the best of it or find something else to do.

    Given today's news and my love of endurance racing, LMP1 is foremost on my mind. One possible solution I can think of is to keep the chassis/aero rules to which various parties (Ginetta, Dallara, Perrinn) are currently building new privateer cars, open that up to manufacturers and allow a free-for-all on powertrains - ICE, hybrid, fuel cell, whatever you want. BUT, keep the current EoT system and balance all outputs to that of the best-in-class privateer engine option. Not saying that would definitely work, but I can't think of another way of squaring the circle to allow new tech to be developed and to keep privateers (the only competitors that will stick around long-term) in the game.

    GT racing is booming now, since manufacturers can race cars that look just like their halo products and BoP gives them all a shot at winning. Right now, those halo products are ICE powered, but that's not going to be the case for much longer. And then, GT racing will have to change too.

    I don't think it's all doom and gloom, but there are some stark realities the sport is going to have to face up to.
     
  11. FuzzyFassbender

    FuzzyFassbender Registered

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    Sounds are important to me. Arriving at the track and hearing the cars (and smells) gives me goose bumps, love it! And even more important for sim racing - turn off the sound and race a few laps - it's bland, no immersion. Sound reproduction plays a big part in my selection or seat time in my sims. Example, Gran Turismo never appealed to me in large part because of the terrible sounds, on the other hand R3E sounds pull me deeper into the experience.
    I know all electric racing is coming, I guess I will eventually loose the car/motorsports addition I've had for the past 50 years.
     
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  12. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I feel exactly the same way and to some extent I wonder, if people who find FE interesting or great have ever been to a race track and sucked up the athmosphere with all their senses. I can't believe it tbh. Luckily I've seen all types of motorsport, when they were great and I still have my racing sims to travel back in time when cars didn't look like transformers, didn't sound like vacuum cleaners and made your whole body shiver by their pure sound and sheer speed. In the V10 era you felt the gear shifting in your stomach, that's just how powerful and energetic the sport was. The funny and hypocritic fact about Forumula E and the whole ecologic debate is, that they waste alot more energy by carrying their crap cars around the world, so in that regard, they aren't any different than fosile based racing cars. And at the end of the day the pollution by race cars is basicly a silent fart in the wind and the purpose of using "Motorsport" as a marketing project to get a clean image for manufacturers driven by the greed for money is actually what is killing motorsport right now. But the day, when all FIA based series use stuff like halo - and that day is pretty close - and when Formula E gets the pinacle of motorsport, I will quite watching openwheel racing alltogether. Luckily there is still MotoGP. If you take a look at old images of F1 races you get an idea what went wrong with motorsport. It went from a public festival for a wide audience to a clean show for the snobbery. Sometimes pictures say more than words:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  13. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    You made my day! :)
     
  14. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    For me the electric formula have no soul
     
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  15. goose1

    goose1 Registered

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    As 98% of my sim racing is in the Aussie V8 Supercars (or now know only as supercars because of the transission to shitbox V6 turbo's) i also am saddened & annoyed that these suit wearing pencil pushers have decided to take the v8s away from us V8 petrol head aussies . I have been fortunate enough to actualy go to Winton motor raceway to camp & watch the v8 supercars . For most of us fans here in Aus its all about the Ford vs Holden V8 (nissans & others alike only make up the numbers),when they start running the v6 turbo egg beaters i will no longer take an interest . What next ? Running the Nascar series with Hybrids .
     
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  16. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    Hate watching FE and l don't know anyone who has any interest at all in it while most of my friends are F1 fans .. the cars cost about a quarter or less of an F1 car as such should attract massive fields the circuits are so boring , all the racing is done under braking into 90 degree turns zzzz..
     
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  17. Brack Jabham

    Brack Jabham Registered

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    Problem with V8 Supercars is that it used to be that the cars that "won on Sunday, sold on Monday". You can't buy an Australian made Ford or Holden, and V8s have not been selling well for years. Where Supercars have gone wrong now is to develop a different local series rather than using an already developed standard so you could mix local and interantional drivers at times
    As for LMP1 who can afford $200m per year for a race program. Costs have to be controlled somehow or only a few can compete
    Formula E is OK, and will get faster. I hear thery won't swap cars next season
     
  18. bravotangosix

    bravotangosix Registered

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    A lot of new tech can be greeted with apprehension but this move does signal a massive shift in the sport.

    It does make me realise that our hobby will soon be the only way to experience any form of combustion engine racing. This is probably why ANY vehicles or even tracks that are created should be done so with the greatest care and precision because what is created today we are going to be left with tomorrow as part of our sports history. We need to start simulating these vehicles before they're gone for good otherwise they'll be lost forever leaving no one to be able to experience anything close to what they were like to drive.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
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  19. Nitrometh

    Nitrometh Registered

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    Sad days......One day top fuel dragsters will have V6 Engines.....for about 3 years I was member of formula student electric and I really have to say electric drive is violent.
    But electric cars......No. that's not „racing“ in my opinion.
    Maybe Alfa and or Toyota will join DTM....best wishes for the future of fuel fired racing.
     
  20. CamiloNino

    CamiloNino Registered

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    Motor sports have to be cheap and popular enough so that independent teams can survive on their own just attracting sponsors, or you have to make motor sports interesting enough for manufacturers to test their road car technology and get publicity.

    With the current costs and decreasing popularity of motors sports it is really no surprise where things are headed. I'm not particularly bummed by the focus on electric technologies, Anything that push technology forward, being quiet electric or whatever is a win in my book, specially if it is cleaner. Surely I would like for motorsports not to be so dependent on manufacturers wishes, and for everyone to be able to enjoy big loud engines, but things change, that's life.
     
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