FFB and Track: after couple laps I felt more vibration on the wheel, any idea?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Joe, Sep 26, 2015.

  1. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    It simulates tire wear & flat spotting, the option of turning it off would be a massive step backwards for a game that's pushing the boundaries of what can be achieved. If you want the option for that we may as well have the option to turn off realistic physics so everyone's racing flat out in the F1s round Historic Spa with with their eyes shut!

    Simply put; don't like the flat spotting?...tough! It's here to stay, it's part of the future of Sim Racing on PCs so get used to it....by learning how to avoid it :)
     
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  2. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Because the logic is to improve the product ADDING functions, not removing them if they don't fit customers tastes (bad tastes in this case). You just need to decrease a little the brake strenght and start to brake a bit earlier, then you have to remember to decrease brake pressure as you turn the wheel. You can learn it faster than the time spent arguing about it. :) You should appreciate the opportunity to become a better driver.
     
  3. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    I understand the argument of "tire wear", but I do not buy the argument of "tire damage" here. How a tire gets to damage is not that easy to be modeled. Frankly, I don't think any sim can do such "realistically" today.
    The live videos shown Tire got damage ("flat-spot" per sa) could be misleading here. A tire got damage could be due to any reason, one most common is due to defects of internal structure.
     
  4. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    Not sure what you're getting at but I don't think we have decent tire damage model (could be wrong) yet, sure if we're wanting a realistic tire damage then yeah maybe that's something for the future.
    All we know is that we do have Flat Spotting, that's all you need to know for now, if more realistic tire damage models come into play down the line then great, more realism, for now just learn with what we've got. It's really just the same as the way Car Physics have evolved through the years - tires have been and are doing the same, Flat Spotting is just another process to make Tires react more realistically than we have ever had in the past.
     
  5. Ozzy

    Ozzy Registered

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    I have the feeling you do not understand what a flat spot is? It is obvious why it is linked to wear because a flat spot is nothing more than excessive wear on just one point of the tire.
    The resulting feeling in the FFB is no artificial effect. It is simply the result of how a tire which is not round anymore affects the whole suspension/steering system. If this effect is to strong and you have fear of destroying your wheel, then increase FFB smoothing that's what it is for. Or as others said simply don't flatspot your tire, or use ABS...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2015
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  6. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    Driver.

    Don't lock wheels under braking. Often it happens if not braking in a straight line, the inside front is lifted off, or that side of the car is lighter, so the same pressure that doesn't lock the outside will lock the inside.

    Steer more smoothly to keep healthy weight transfer (or brake in a straight line) to minimize the amount of time a wheel is light for under braking. Or, just learn what pressure causes it and apply less. Most of the time this is solely down to the driver.
     
  7. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    Flatspot = a flat spot on a round wheel. You're feeling the physical vibration of that. It's part of racing. Don't lock tires on a single spot and you won't have them.
     
  8. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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  9. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    Then that vibration caused this...

     
  10. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    If you don't believe a sim can do it, fine.

    But please, put your brake bias forwards, drive our sim and lock your front wheels. Enjoy the tire damage. :) It's a flatspot.
     
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  11. Damian Baldi

    Damian Baldi Registered

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    I think we have bad habits about driving on the limit of the car, thanks to the previous sims where it was all about the limit of your skills of going as fast as you can. There wasn't collateral effects of the abuse of the tires, may be just fast wear.

    Now with rf2 it's all about speed AND about management too. Fuel consumption and tyre wear will be key as it's in endurance races.


    To avoid flat spot, don't downshift so hard, let the RPMs go down. If you downshift too hard, the rear tyres can't handle so much brake and tyres lock making the front tires receive more energy, then the front tyres lock (the inside tyre first) and sometimes you could spin.
     
  12. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    Wonder if JOE will ever get tired of posting questions about RF2 tyre physics, of which he never likes the answers he gets... :rolleyes:
     
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  13. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    Hey Guys:

    No offend here. This is my 101 lesson of Flatspot from rF2. Thanks for your kindly replies.
    I still think an option of letting people turn ON/OFF tire damage is needed.

    Some ones believe the tire damage is realistic and want ON, and other may not so. After all, the "Flatspot" is in a damage state (permanent deformed), not in were state. It happens in tire sliding state. Hence there is no real-life data to prove either way in terms of realistic (how and when transitioning to) (I think). One may feels more realistic while FFB shakes your wheel or needing to go pit for new tire, but you do not know what you are getting into "real" or "fiction". Sim can simulate either way.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2015
  14. jimcarrel

    jimcarrel Registered

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    One problem possibly causing "easy to flatspot" can be your pedals.. I'm using DFGT wheel and peddles, in order to use brakes in a more real way, I have to set brake sensitivity to about 35% (in-rF2 controller setup page)
     
  15. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    This was mentioned before. If you start turning things off per player, where do things stop? I think my car uses too much fuel when I'm racing online, I'll turn it down...

    I don't see it as one thinking it's realistic and another not. The physics engineers and the wizards behind the tyre model know their ****, I have more trust in them than I do most others.
    While you have the flatspot itself, you also have the imbalance of the wheel assembly. If you take a bit of rubber off, that's at the outermost point of the wheel, suddenly it's all out of balance. Ever driven a car out of balance? XD
     
  16. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    As I said before, I just need an option, that is all. You can do with Always ON for tire damage model, but I dont want.
    "Always ON" leads a danger that ones' driving skill will be over-trained by rF2 tire damage model! I do not what end up this. I already saw this behave from this thread.
     
  17. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    So that is it then. You want to get anything as real as possible, show graphs to illustrate your point, discuss all about it, ignoring explanations, stamping your feet when proven wrong, but in the end you want to turn things off because of your driving skill? Is that really it? How would you be able to tell if something is realistic or not in the first place if you can't recognize a simple flatspot or get around a track at a moderate pace (just a guess)? Getting better at something isn't an option? Maybe rF2 isn't for you, thought about that?
     
  18. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    :rolleyes:

    ISI can we have the option to turn realistic Physics Off please? as it's affecting my Sunday Drive to the Countryside!
     
  19. buddhatree

    buddhatree Registered

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    I'm willing to guess the OP has a Logitech wheel?

    Flat spots on a Logitech are just awful. It's not the games fault. It's the wheel. The vibrations are so bad, you think the wheel is going to disintegrate right in your hands.

    One day I just said enough and bought a belt-drive wheel. Now I can finish a race on a flat spot if I have to. It feels as it should. You can even feel which wheel has the flat spot. You can't on a Logitech (or I couldn't).

    It's a great feature. No, we should not be allowed to turn it off.
     
  20. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    I concur that it seems it's flat spotting. It's part of the realism, the fidelity of RF2 that you need to treat your tyres like you paid for them.
    There was a beautiful story of the driver Pierre-Francois Rousselot who in British F3 in the 70s spent his last money on only two tyres, he fitted them to the outside of the car and won the race.

    In practical advice: Be gentle untill you get some heat into the tyres, cold tyres are easy to lock.
    Untill you get a feel for it, Lower your brake pressure till you are locking less.
    Check your brake balance.
    Read the breifing on each car, many of the high performance cars will tell you that as aero load drops off with speed drop off you need to reduce braking.
    Before you leave the pit box depress you brake pedal fully so it is calibrated, often the first press in that session will go to 100%.
    Try adjusting the brake pedal response map in controller settings ( though I always end up back at 100%).
    One day just practice braking, nothing else. Progressive braking is needed in some cars to load the fronts b4 full power braking.
    Check your cooling levels, brakes that are too cool or too hot can be erratic.
    Check your engine braking map. An aggressive map can mean rear lock ups.
    Watch your downshifts they can lock rear tyres.
    Be smooth.
    Mod your brake pedal for more resistance. Anything from a cut squash ball to RC car shocks.
    Drive like you have paid for those tyres.
    have fun-its high fidelity, thats why we are here.
     

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