Sim Racing servo ffb systems : OSW & Bodnar

latest online practice , totally in the zone ( obviously the nice bits ) nearly lost it right on the last corner (avoiding possible accident ) -the steering wheel looses nothing in little complications such as this

bear in mind also that Iracing rotation stops at a certain degrees graphically
( annoyingly ) so you can not see steering inputs at degrees higher

I'm going to assign some dial controls ( brake bias, engine power, fuel mixture ) to experiment as I think people with edge on speed are fully utilising this stuff (dropping back fuel mixture when tires wearing etc )
( the dials actually turn on the in-sim wheel to match rotary's on real wheel, great for VR )

when I go a bit wide a few times I think the dirty air is causing a tad less grip which I detect through the wheel thus attempt to maintain traction by using more track
(but in track places it's not good to do so)

the sim-racing cost of high end gear just for practice sessions alone is worth it for me
never raced the f1 in a proper race session, but starting to feel ready on certain tracks after about 6 months of practice sessions
we can do all this without the fear of death, maybe broken wrists only

In spite of my moaning about iracings ffb in certain key areas it's very "clean" and transmits only tire to track surface effect ( contact patch ? ) essential when "on the edge" incredibly well & yes a high end ffb system is best used

p.s just emailed my order for small Mige also to test / compare to large Mige
looking round for a great enclosure for the circuitry , will incorporate a powered USB hub in this also

pps I was looking through the net for a real life f1 experience ( due to cost as a one off )
but the tracks look seriously naff, I want to blast around spa or Silverstone lol

 

Tell us if u find a good option. We will come with u and have a drive

 

Adrian, show us videos of you actually driving or else it just looks like any iracing video

 

Barry at sim racing garage is doing some kind of review using the OSW in the argon-Mige servo configuration


( Spinelli yes I'll have to do something like that showing me moving around in motion setup etc )

 

Adrian, can I request you stop posting such videos as i'm still waiting to order my wheel !!!
Spoke to John again today the new kit may be ready for me to collect while at the Silverstone Classic this weekend.

 

Spinelli, here is a recent video by Niels Heusinkveld featuring the upgrade for the bodnar wheel

 

mark7

ha ha, your in for a big treat ( might take you a little while to tune into it & get decent settings etc ) but you'll notice superior quality straight away

 

Does anybody know the new changes that the new bodnar system has?

 

everything same except custom circuit includes a tad more so more adjustablilty possible,
a nice welcome too, I like to fiddle a bit

ps currently there is only ffb force + damp available )-:, I'm hoping there's going t be a shed load more , mark7 will let us know what additional settings available
I'm sure when he's up & running

 

Adrian, does the "SIM-ple for IONI" still use the same software as other OSW users with regards to the control panel FFB settings? I heard the OSW allows lots of adjustment and I wouldn't want to loose that, plus, it makes it easier to find and share settings with others. I've seen pics of the tuning options and it does look pretty good.

 

yes everything, only the unused parts are left out of the custom circuit
not sure if all the adjustability is needed to be honest, but I guess it's nice to have the options

( it's bodnar custom circuit that reduces adjustability , but the bodnar feels fantastic so not criticising )

 

Awesome. I'm now heavily leaning towards the small MiGe and IONI-Pro and going with that nearly all-in-one kit previously mentioned. I'm just going to wait for that comparison review before my final decision.

Is the small MiGe + IONO Pro combination capabale of the following (big MiGe)?:

 

If i'm not mistaken, that guy is having to output 25A peak-of-sine from his argon to get the big mige motor to output 28Nm. You should be able to output the same with the small mige, except you'll only need 18A peak-of-sine which the IONI Pro can do.

The only differences i can see between these two combinations (big mige + argon vs. small mige + ioni pro) is peak rotation speed because the argon can output higher voltage limit than the ioni can (but as has been already discussed, likely a non-issue with such high torques already). Secondly, the big mige has a higher continuous torque rating which translates to being able to run in the intermittent range of torque outputs for longer than the small mige for the same amount of heat build up. Basically, the holding/rated torque represents the safe amount of maximum torque output that can be sustained indefinitely without running into potentially adverse heat issues that will reduce the manufacturer quoted expect working life-span of the motor.

But motors routinely jump in and out of the intermittent region of operation (i.e. above the holding/rated torque and up to the peak torque rating or even higher) for short periods of time so how does this play a role in the overall life-expectancy? It's all about the running average heat. So whether you run it at continuous torque indefinately or ran it so the torque output running average equaled the continuous torque rating, both will produce the same average amount of heat.

So how does one ensure the motor does not run into possible heat issues? By ensuring that the running average of the torque output from the motor is within the continuously rated range of torque. So for example, take the small mige with a holding/rated torque of 10Nm. If we imagine a perfect sinusoidal torque output over time, with the peak being 20Nm and the trough 0Nm, the running average of that sinusoidal output over time would be 10Nm which is within the small mige's continuous region of operation. If however the sinusoidal torque output had a peak of 28Nm and trough of 0Nm, the running average would be 14Nm, 4Nm higher than the manufacture has deemed it safe (or ideal) to do so.

So the question becomes, if using 0-28Nm as the ffb torque output range will it cause the running average torque output to exceed the continuously rated torque of the motor? We know that since the big mige has a 5Nm higher continuous rating than the small mige (15Nm vs. 10Nm), it stands a better chance of not running into this potential issue. Without being able to test this in person, one way to know whether this issue would occur on a motor or not requires knowing the running average ffb output percentage from a specific car and track combination and then multiplying it with the torque range you're using from your motor. E.g. say when driving some car + track combo you experience a running average ffb output over time of 50% and you used a 0-28Nm torque output range (with the small or big motor). That would equate to a running average torque output of 14Nm. For the big mige, that's just within the manufactures safe to run continuously rating but for the small mige it's 4Nm higher than it's continuous rating.

What would that mean? At best it will simply result in a shorter life-expectancy for the motor. At worst, a shorter life-expectancy and possibly a decrease in torque output from the motor due to excessive heat build up increasing the electrical resistance of the stator coils (i.e. just like in some mainstream consumer ffb wheels....best/most-severe examples including the CSR-E/CSWv1. But whether the mige's would suffer from heat induced torque fade or not and if so how much by if it's averagely operated above it's continuous rating, would require physical testing.)

The peak torque of the small mige of 20Nm is quite a bit lower than the 30Nm of the big mige. It's also quite a bit lower than the 28Nm you can almost certaintly get with the ioni pro. Peak torques are usually only meant to occur for a few seconds, the reason being that the amount of current required to output that torque very rapidly heats the stator coil wire. At these currents for too long and you run the very possibly risk of damaging the stator coil wire and motor. It all comes down to life-expectancy of the motor. With the big mige, you have less risk to the motor failing on you with 0-28Nm. But then to have 0-28Nm with the big mige you have to go with the Argon.

It's a bit of a catch 22.

If you know of anyone with the small mige and using up to 28Nm torque range all the time without running into heat, torque or completely motor failure issues for a good while, then it's probably safe to do so.

 

think Barry has had both, more reviews coming Spinelli , although I'm guessing opinions of the slight differences will be down to user personal preferance

happy times hey

 

16 Nm looks like this.

 

Thanks for all the wisdom. I'm trying to understand the limits of the Ioni pro when driving the Big MiGe (M15015). In other words, is it safe to assume that the peak torque with that combination is somewhere between 20-30nm?

 

Peak torque of M!5015 + IONI Pro should be 20Nm due to the current output limit of 12.7A rms and motor torque coefficient of 1.58 Nm/A.

 

Tests produce 21Nm (drip's about spot on), plenty of power
+Ollies working on integrating Granite Device external power stage to SIM-ple which would allow for currents up to 30A,
Claims cost of this add-on will be low too

The enclosures I'm sorting ( case for psu&circuits) will have a little space spare for any future add-Ons with ease

 

Does anybody knows this DD? Just found by accident...

http://www.sensodrive.de/EN/Produkte/Force-Feedback-Wheels/Senso-Wheel-HT.php

 

yes, I sent them a lot of emails about 3 years ago as I realised what they had,
found them very unhelpful expensive and unbothered for custom

their kit looks top grade though ( full industrial grade servo systems) like OSW and bodnar,
now we have the OSW & bodnar ( & EK ) there's no need to suffer their response
(maybe they are better now + euro weaker)