Sim Racing servo ffb systems : OSW & Bodnar

Thanks... I appreciate your updates on this development.

Reference your speed comment... is this something that is a huge issue for you or a small one? Is it something you had before you owned the AF? What wheel did you have before?

I am still using a G25 so I assume I will be happy with the leap forward to direct drive but of course I would like to make an informed choice. I am leaning to the AF because the Bodnar is more than twice the price for a relatively small (vs the price differential) chunk of additional quality and I just don't think building my own with the OSW will work out very well.

 

There is however still the unfortunate possibility that it was not intentional and hopefully can be remedied through voltage supply.

 

OSW can be purchased all made for hardly more than the AF wheel, maybe even much less

 

Complete... all made? I have heard of a kit where the parts come in one shipment but not an assembled version. Where is that?

 

thanks Paul... that helps.

 

Second part of the following post: http://isiforums.net/f/showpost.php?p=355647

And I've read about at-least 1 guy in the iRacing forums doing it for much cheaper still. I think he uses that much less expensive Ioni PCB thing instead of the Argon.

P.S. On a separate note, I've seen videos of the wheels - including the much slower Accuforce wheel - correcting and spinning on their own so fast that the driver just had to let go of the wheel and the car would stop the initial slide on it's own almost like an aid. I've seen it in an iRacing Skippy @ Sebring w/ Accuforce video, an iRacing Skippy @ skidpad (I think) w/ OSW video, and - I don't know if it's an issue with the game's physics or the wheel's - quite frankly it's a joke.

When the rear-end comes out, you don't just let go of the wheel and let the car's magical, auto-pilot correct the slide for you. Maybe you can do it often with drift cars and some longer, controlled road-car slides but, for e.g., when a Skippy snaps out on you in the midle or exit of a corner you don't just let go of the wheel and VOILA the steering saves the initial slide for you. That's so wrong it's not even funny. It's a border-line driving aid.

 

If you ask me, and you didnt , I would say it is because they are not confident of the results. Lets just hope the people they are using are not the same people who are close to simx who keep saying it's more force than they would ever want to use... Simx could already be a couple months down the track with these enhancements if it wasnt for some people who never tried an osw saying nothing can touch it.

 

A guy in the UK is selling the kits for around $1kusd delivered, all it is missing is an enclosure and a rim. Buy a cheap small computer case and drop it in there and bolt any 70mm rim on it.

If you want butttons you have to do them yourself or get someone to do them. You can buy a sam maxwell custom wheel based on a momo for ~ $500 and you are still cheaper.

 

http://ib-reimer.de/index.php/en/products/osw-beginner-en

Here OSW set with small mige 1599 € for EU customers and 1449 € for non-EU customers. You just need to blug the cables and find a box for the electronics.

 

Paul, buy a wheel for $50 or $100 bucks. Minor when we're talking about $1,000 - $2000. And as a couple other people mentioned, you can even get everything (minus rim) for about $1500 U.S. and even $1000 U.S. (wow!!).

The only thing is buttons, you throw buttons in the mix and people start ripping others off with prices. $50 or $100 for a rim but you want buttons? Ok that'll be another $500, lol WTF??!!!

 

I would like to ask to the experts about one thing I have not seen addressed throughout previous posts?

When discussing between steppers and servo motors people have not said anything about the very particular way racing wheels work: torque delivering systems.

In a racing wheel it is the driver who moves the wheel and the wheel simply reacts by providing the torque value that the game dictates. Nothing to do with robot application that was shown in one of the videos.

I would presume that for that use a servo motor would perform better than a stepper system. I simply cannot see how to avoid losing steps without using a positional encoder and providing high frequency control to energize the different poles to provide the commanded torque. It would be nice if someone explained this.

My only experience with stepper motors was a long time ago for positioning control in a satellite antenna. Low speed requirement plus high powerless detent torque were the reasons for using them.

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Euskotracks, none of these motors use positioning as you would have used with the satellite dish.

These motors are setup to deliver a specific amount of torque and nothing else, just like you said. Both motors have an encoder attached to them that is used as feedback for the wheel position that the game needs to know about but they are not used at all for driving the motor, at least not in the way that you might be thinking.

So the stepper motor has a typical stepper configuration except it has an encoder built in, the servo is s typical servo config and that always has an encoder built in for this type of servo.

Both motors are commanded, not to go to a position but to apply a certain amount of torque. Thats at a basic level, not 100% accurate but I think it answers your question without being a few more paragraphs in length

 

It is the way to power the different phases of the stepper to deliver a constant torque when the driver is turning the wheel what confuses me. I understand that since we are "losing" steps when turning the wheel, the encoder needs to provide the position to the drive so it knows which phase to energize. From a plainly intuitive point of view it looks you need a superfast drive to control a motor this way. The way a lesser number of poles motor needs to be controlled seems to be much more appropriate. However this is just a wild guess and frequency might not be a problem with existing technology. Thanks for your reply BTW.

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1000 Hz looks quite OK in terms of phase energizing output rate. However I would need to calculate if that is enough for highest wheel speeds.

I understand that many of you have had a stepper motor in your hands.
The angle between stable steps is quite low, hence torque varies quite a lot for a reduced angle variation which doesn't occur in a lesser number of poles motor. Hence in order to provide a constant torque throughout a large travelling angle (for example to turn the wheel in an idle car) the poles need to be powered on and off very fast. Much faster as said than in a typical servo motor where torque vs angular displacement is a lot lesser.

If driving frequency is not high enough, you would expect a rattling or oscillating torque throughout the wheel travel when turning the wheel at high speed. If speed is actually superfast you would probably start losing steps which would end up in a significant torque reduction.

One person has reported some kind of weird effect when turning the wheel at high speeds when practicing drifting.

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Anyone have thoughts or experience with EC Sim Hardware's Pro SW advance servo wheel? Not sure why that was left out of the review as it is pretty much the only other option I can think of. They have an external bearing setup on the advance version that seems interesting. Kind of leaning towards one of these but a general lack of reviews or info available...

 

it's a full true servo system , it should be up there with the bodnar & osw without a problem

 

Did you see the Simpit review?

 

I did and that is the only review available and it shows a prototype and not their top-of-the-line version.

I emailed EC Sim about some details, and they responded that the servo motor is sourced from Asia and to search youtube for the simpit review. ? For $3K I'm not super impressed with the response but I can blaze the trail on this one and share my experience.

*I also have a JCL sim rig coming, I'll provide a review in the hardware section of the forum in the next few months.

 

The JCL rig looks like the best option to me. I like the Obutto but the JCL seems even better. Where do you live/how much for shipping it? Any immediate reviews regarding interactions with JCL on the purchase?

 

Apologies for the off topic to others but I'll gladly provide some details. I started with a playseat, then an Obutto, then a VR3. The VR3 was easily the best out of that bunch.

I don't have much good to say about the Obutto I bought back in 2012 other than it was pretty solid and Chris is a good guy. Depending on where you live, what your drive, etc. you'll either be happy with it or offended by it. It is Chinese steel scrapyard meets my old college P.O.S. car seat brought together. I ended up selling the triple screen mount on flea bay and the rest was brought to the dump.

The JCL guys thus far are great. Very nice to deal with, very quick to respond to emails and questions. They sent me a quote then a paypal invoice because their site was showing the US price wrong (too high). I paid on a Friday and they had it shipped Priority International on Tuesday. Shipping was around $200 for what I ordered. So far I'd say you can't go wrong with them. It cleared customs yesterday so I'll have it this week. I needed something solid to mount a servo wheel to and I wanted to mount a real race bucket so the timing couldn't be better. Once I have everything setup I'll do a full review. Cheers.