About the next project from JM Virtual Tracks "Patreon Launched"

Something like this makes sense, but it would need several features:

1) Time frames/deadlines met, or money back
2) Get your money back by a certain date if price goal threshold is not met
3) A rating system to encourage/reassure newbies of the quality of the work and therefore generate more participants

Basically, with so many free tracks available and pirating rampant, the entry price has to be pretty low. This can only work with strength in numbers. It will only work if short attention spans are satisfied and people don't have to wait so long to get the product.

Since the track will have to be done with pretend names and no copyrighted symbols or objects, so therefore no authentic advertising, I don't see the problem with offering sponsorship for in-game ads. Sponsorship dollars could be put towards achieving the first threshold, which will have to be fairly high assuming a good quality track.

The benefit of this system is that it is fool-proof. It doesn't matter how many of us forum-geeks like the idea. You will soon see if there are enough takers to make a go of this and you don't start work until the threshold is reached (or close if there is a clear momentum). So no loss or risk to you for offering/trying.

 

I pledge my support

 

The plan sounds good. Early access is probably my main perk as I don't have a business to promote. Early access also takes care of the "I contributed, but got nothing" concern if milestones aren't being met (e.g. first early access would be barebones driving surface with timing gates & basic non-competitive AIW, then future milestones would be the details being fleshed in).

That leaves the question of whether there are enough supporters to get the ball rolling?

 

Yea, the problem I see with other models like kickstarter is the entire goal has to be met before anything happens. This is good in a promise is set to the people pledging that they will receive said product so having for sure enough money in hand ensures the project will get finished and all will get what they paid for. Downside however is, it would likely be at least 30 days of waiting to see if the goal is met and if it isn't met then nothing happens and that 30 days of campaigning was essentially a big waste of time.

Other hand something like patreon, first income would come as soon as the start of the month and the project would start basically with partial goal met, but its more a monthly thing, the goal would be just funding enough income per month to see things to completion. One difference being, instead of say pledging 5 dollars on the outset you can just pledge 1 dollar a month, so if two months in you don't like what you are seeing you are only out 2 dollars and when the track completes you'll get the track anyway. On the downside patreon is more set up in a donation standpoint, your money is a gift with perks being the reward and not necessarily any specific product promised. It's basically a lot less hardline and a lot more flexible, if the funding is good and the track gets done quicker than expected it could ultimately cost less than what the goal of a kickstarter would have beenl added to anyone can get involved or opt out anytime without much money invested, yet big investers can still get rewarded well.

As for early access, would depend on what patrons wanted, if you want to test the track ribbon I would be fine with it, if you want at least terrain and some walls then that is fine too, will just be longer before the first build. I'm thinking any real early build probably wouldn't have ai, I don't usually do ai creation till the very end, but timing is required to load a track ingame now so that is in place from first export of the track.

 

I saw the email for the "other" track but Daytona will be a great choice. I still think it should be sold for a low price when it is completed otherwise I don't think you'll get the buy in your looking for but who knows. Add it to your growing catalog of tracks for sale.

Adding an option at say $100, where the track is free of anyone's adverts (wall of fame (whatever it will be called) should still be included) and created in the theme desired. i.e. Have to word carefully (license issues) but if someone wants the ROLEX 24 hour theme then that is what they get on the golden copy of the track. That would be a perk only for supporters at that level and above. You can e.g. build 4 popular themes and include those versions to the supporters at that level.

Looking forward to this effort and keep your "investors" updated via email with the when and how. Cheers.

 

Problem with the above is forcing multiple versions = connectivity issues online.

 

Could care less about online and second how many $100 subscribers do you think there will be? Maybe 20 on a good day but more likely 10. Those ten will be aware they are running a different version and will have access to the mainstream version if they want to get online. Not a problem at all...

 

I like the Daytona track quite a lot... the road course that is. but it just seems odd going with that choice given that ISI have hired a third party to convert the old track. it seems like they would have paid someone to improve the track at the same time.

how many people are going to want to invest in your track if they know ISI is coming out with their own version?

something like Road Atlanta or Virginia International Raceway would be a better choice in my opinion. if you are concerned about the money aspect you have to approach the marketplace with a product that has no competition---- not one that has competition from the developer themselves.

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What are you talking about? You might have confused something - or maybe I have not read it - about Daytona. There is no conversion from ISI anywhere because ISI hasn't made it. There are two versions available, one from SimRaceWay (which is no longer appealing) and another converted from rF1 which may have been converted from NR 2003, and it is absurdly dated and distracting to run.

 

Problem I see is many people are telling me that Road Atlanta or VIR just aren't popular enough to draw in people outside those visiting this niche thread. There was another track in discussion other than Oulton Park, that one things have changed on as there is someone developing it and is pretty far along, it may not be as good as what may have come from a brand new build but its reasonable enough to warrant stepping back. Daytona compared to Jacksonville is really a comparison of two different animals, as far as I know Jacksonville that ISI is bringing doesn't have the road course, but there is an altered conversion that had the road course. However both are built on Jacksonville's oval which isn't accurate, it features the same specifications as Daytona but that is where the similarities end, it is a new track of its own beyond that.

One thing RF2 really is setup well for is longer endurance style events, other than a mid race save for offline players it has all the other perks, full 24 hour time cycle, real road, active weather system. The biggest events in endurance racing take place at Lemans, Daytona, Spa, and Sebring. Lemans currently has someone pursuing a modern verion of it, Sebring has a nice version just could make use of better shader and lighting, Spa well give it time its already in almost event sim more than once, that leaves Daytona. Other reason Daytona is a good choice is not only am I very familiar with it already, I have good information on it so I have a lot of confidence in building it accurately. Getting useable data for VIR and Road Atlanta will be a lot more trouble. All of that said I still want to do them, I feel like American sports car tracks don't get as much attention as others do and most of the voices I have been hearing lately have been telling me American and British tracks so that is likely where a lot of my attention is going to go for a while. Still, if people are going to be supporting me financially they have a voice, if 80% of the people who support me say do this track instead then that would speak volumes.

Wanted to address a couple other concerns, first Ads. My aim would be to put ads in the same places they are in the real track during events, however I can't use the real ads so these will either be fantasy ads or ads for supporters as I need something to go in those places anyway. They are there to maintain a sense of reality since ads really do exist, though more at some tracks than others. About themes, this falls into something else I wanted to mention. If the track is releasing publicly for free then modifications through updates will be allowed as long as the original package is untouched. If someone wants to make an unofficially texture mod to the track that is dependent on having the original package then they are welcome to same as if they were modding ISI's own content in some way.

 

Here is a sample of the page I am setting up, a wip at the moment.

 

It sounds like I might have misunderstood the work ISI is doing... I thought they were trying to replicate Daytona including the road course.

If they aren't then I think your choice is a good one. Glad to hear you are positive on Rd Atlanta and VIR too.

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looks good CC, should be an interesting experiment.

one issue i have w/ patreon tho is that if someone makes one large donation the whole "monthly" thing is going to be misleading one way or another...idk how they handle that. obviously someone could meter it out in installments but thats a bit silly imo.

 

youve prob also thought of this too but think itll be worth keeping in mind ppl like me who'd be in the $5-$10 club for the track are more likely to start off at $1 & go to $3 depending on how appealing early access looks

 

That's understandable and is good judgement, whole idea is pay what you can even bare minimum, get in then hopefully I am able to make it worth your while enough to make you want to contribute more, if not then that is on me. As for big donations, yea, people have the option to throw all in at once then pull out the before the next month if they want especially if all they care about is contributing and not about being part of the whole process, they would still receive certain perks anyway and I would probably work it out so that people who do that are rewarded differently somehow. They also have the option to split it up as you said, which for many works out better since you can spread it between paychecks and not tie it up. Life changes someone may want to give big one month but stuff happens, breaking it up may be a smarter move for them. For me, milestones are kind of there to let people know what on a whole their efforts are accomplishing, if I do my part right those milestones will hopefully be met because people think I am doing a good job and are appreciating the whole thing. This is going to be a bit of a wip, I don't expect things to just fall into place over night, I'm going to be listening to feedback from those involved and adjusting to make things work.

 

Reminder: Road Atlanta and Daytona have publically-available aerial lidar scans. VIR does not.

 

Aren't those only good for some reference but definitely not for anything to do with layout details, from elevation to camber?

 

I got to this post and stopped reading
Byyyyyyyeeeeee

 

say you only get $2000.00 which is a heluvalot, will the track be complete?

 

$6500 for a track, are you for real, or is this, April fools day again...............