High-End Wheel Owners (CSW V2 and Above) Please Chime In - Experiences, Info, Reviews

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Spinelli, May 5, 2015.

  1. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    So if the Accuforce can do constant 13Nm of torque, than would it's max probably be around 30Nm like the big Mige and Lenze motors? Both those motors do around 10-20Nm constant like the Accuforce (13Nm), so - going by that - then shouldn't the Accuforce also be able to do about 30Nm of peak torque? Also, the Lenze is mysteriously only capable of a constant torque at 11.xNM, so how are the Lenze and the Mige apparently so much more powerful than the AF? I'm just not getting any of this.
     
  2. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    I honestly would not start to presume what the true peak torque for the AF Pro is. Also it's not important since you most likely won't be able to unlock more torque from it's motor due to hardware and software caps by SimX. To get a motor to it's peak torque, you need to have sufficient power to juice it. Assuming SimX do not want you to go higher than the 13Nm torque they may have absolutely limited it, for example the PSU supply possibly can't deliver enough current to reach the motors true peak torque. I could be wrong, just my guesstimate.

    Regarding Lenze vs Mige, the motor's rotational inertia is only 7.3 kg.cm^2 for the Lenze vs 27.7 kg.cm^2 for the mige. That's 4x larger for the mige and lower inertia is better (meaning better accelerations = shorter transient response = less lag). How much of a difference that makes (to sim racing) in practice however, i could not say.
     
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  3. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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    Nope, Peak with cogging...
     
  4. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Really? Peak torque (whether continuous or intermittent) is always at stall/zero-speed so you shouldn't feel any cogging if the wheel is stationary. However, are you saying with 13Nm enabled, if generating 13Nm and the wheel is rotating, users are experiencing cogging?
     
  5. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Ok, thanks for confirming and letting me know.

    hmm, interesting.

    Cool. Did you swap out the rim to avoid flex issues?
     
  6. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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    http://forum.virtualracing.org/show...edback-Wheel?p=2017673&viewfull=1#post2017673

    There are some videos posted, from a Bodnar and AF Owner, with some serious testings. And yes, it seems, you have to expect cogging with 13 NM :(

    //Edit: by the way, he reported flexing, too.
     
  7. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    If that is what you got from that reply, sorry I can't explain it any better, but you completely misunderstood my meaning.
     
  8. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Good question. Peak torques for the lenze and mige are the absolute max torques the manufactures have deemed safe for some short/intermittent periods of time before damage occurs (usually due to heat). If i'm not mistaken, the manufactures put a current limiter in the motor electronics to prevent a user from apply more current that the manufacture has deemed absolutely safe to do so. Having said that, perhaps the chinese mige motors do not have a limiter and users are therefor able to ramp up the current to levels that permit up to 30Nm from the smaller/cheaper mige vs the manufactures stated peak torque of 20Nm.
     
  9. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Oh nice! Reading and watching the videos now.

    update: First review i've seen/read who's compared it to their experience with a bodnar. So it would seem, the AF Pro is not on par with the bodnar. Thanks for sharing the link. I've asked Barry from Sim Racing Garage for his opinion/view of the AF Pro vs the bodnar as well since he made no mention of it in his AF Pro review. Hoping for a response soon.

    I'm curious whether the cogging in the AF pro in the high settings, etc, is due to the motor or due to the psu/controller or software (or some combination of the three).

    Have you experienced this too Paul?
     
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  10. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    In terms of the CSWV2, If torque and FFB is a key priority just buy the formula rim and save some money.
    The Clubsport rim has two things that reduce its speed and torque. 1) Higher weight 2) greater diameter. (less leverage on your hands and conversely your hands have more leverage on the axis).

    A friend has both and never uses the Clubsport rim now.

    I never bought one and use the formula rim for all cars. Very very happy with the feel and accuracy and speed. I am correcting slides with my hands before they even arrive on screen. In many cars I have the FFB in-game set at below 100%. Some as low as 65%.

    My previous wheel was a CSR.
     
  11. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Ya, if I go the CSW V2 route, I'm actually planning to get the Porsche 918 rim not the GT because the 918 is apparently around 30% lighter than the GT. Or maybe I'll have to figure out a way to put a custom, cheap rim on. I'm only going to buy the 918 rim once it goes down to around the GT's current price of $250. $400 for just the rim? Talk about price gouging by Fanatec. I know that the GT rim is a definite no-no, I only put it there for pricing purposes :)

    [HR][/HR]
    Regarding the OpenSimwheel, this is the reply I got back from Dennis @ http://www.ib-reimer.de/

    "So the kits are fully working out of the box, completely assembled and tested and come with warranty and support if you need some assistance. The pricelist for non-EU customers is a bit different, because of the reduced VAT. So I will tell you now the prices for EU customers, non EU customers will get about 10% discount on everything but the shipping. So basically the discount will match the shipping price.

    OSW Beginner: 1599€
    OSW Performance: 1899€
    OSW Premium: 2399€

    Optional:
    Case for electronic devices: 159€
    QR set: 159€
    2. Wheelside QR: 75€
    Kill switch: 35€

    Paypal fee will be about 5% of the total amount and shipping will be about 180€-220€, depending on what you like to order. The assembling time will be about 4 weeks."

    OSW Beginner --> http://www.ib-reimer.de/index.php/produkte/opensimwheel-beginner
    OSW Performance --> http://www.ib-reimer.de/index.php/produkte/opensimwheel-performance
    OSW Premium --> http://www.ib-reimer.de/index.php/produkte/opensimwheel-premium




    - self aligning torque with the "small" Mige (130ST-M10010 [20 Nm peak]) with current set to 13A which eaquals 21.3 Nm at the steering wheel







    - Lenz motor @ 20Nm, iRacing FFB set to 20Nm
     
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  12. Dennis@OSW

    Dennis@OSW Registered

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    To answer the question: the difference between big mige and lenze servo: both have almost the same peak torque, but motorinertia is much better at the lenze and you won't will any cogging with it, so the own dampening of the lenze is nearly non existant.

    and just to add: bank transfer is also excepted :) for EU customers is this a much more worthy payment method, because there aren't any fees and charges.

    and again: I am selling only the hardware, the software is open source and I am not responsible for any software things, because of GNU GPL, I'm not selling any kind of software, it can be free downloaded. It is basically the same hardware, which is used in CNC machines.
     
  13. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Glad someone is finally offering an OSW build & supply service for those that don't like to use a screwdriver

    Even at these ready prebuild/supply prices -it's a total steal

    Good one Dennis
     
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  14. Z06Trackman

    Z06Trackman Registered

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    I have had my Accuforce wheel for about a week. I love it. I can now drive the rF2 Marussia; with my previous Fanatec CSR there wasn't enough torque to feel the car when the FFB multiplier is set to avoid clipping. I agree with everything Paul says about the Accufrorce above. I am experimenting with the Max Torque Capability setting in JASON and the resulting values in the Wheel Supplied Torque bar graph in SimCommander (the software for both the Accuforce and Simvibe). I need to figure out the clipping notification so I can see if the wheel is clipping now that I have the Max Torque Capability set to 20 (Nm). I cranked this up based on the belief that the "headroom" for short peak torque events was likely way above the max continous rated torque. At this setting there is more torque than I need and it is way more than needed to feel every FFB nuance.
     
  15. Led566

    Led566 Registered

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    Just for info, I'm building one OSW with MiGE 130ST-10010 (or 10015 that is capable of handling more current) and the IONI driver and I will spend less than 800€, steering wheel excluded.
    Argon driver is overkill for the application, the new IONI Pro 1x kit is much more affordable (you'll spare at least 200€ with this).
    MIGE 130ST-15015 seems not advisable because of the higher inertia. Same for the 15025

    Here you can find the MIGE Catalog:http://vs-cnc.com.ua/images/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4/servo%20motors%20catalogue.pdf
     
  16. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Cheers led

    Post pics pretty please (-:
     
  17. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I just noticed that those Mige motors have an encoder line number (PPR) of 2,500. Doesn't the Bodnar have a PPR of 10,000 and the Accuforce a PPR of 16,000?

    800 euros for everything?! Wow! How is it so cheap? From what I read, if you buy all the parts yourself, even with the Mige motor (instead of the more expensive Lenze) it will be around $1700 or $1800...



    - Speaking of the "small" Miges (20Nm instead of 30Nm), the following video (along with Star Mazda @ Road Atlanta) is my favorite OSW video and is what really brought the OSW to my attention :):





    - The following guy is using the "big" Mige (130ST-M15015). Can the higher rotor inertia (Kg.m[SUP]2[/SUP]) of 2.77*10[SUP]-3[/SUP] VS 1.94*10[SUP]-3[/SUP] really be felt, or is this just "on paper" stuff? The "big" Mige really looks incredible here:

     
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  18. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    I'm planing to build one with the IONI Drive, and i'm still waiting to get my IONI from the campain, but it means the IONI needs a very powerfull and very expensive 48 V power supply to be able to handle big motors such as the Lenze. I'm not sure about the details, Dennis knows better, but the IONI seems to expensive when planning to use a more powerfull motor as the small Mige, if i understood right. I'm looking forward to your project, and it would be nice to here more from you. ;)
     
  19. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    I would have some patience to see how the IONI drive will do and or go with one of those other servo options. I for one will wait and i'm in no rush, not only because of the upcoming sommer saison and my handicap, also because of the WIP software all around. iRacing is no option, rf2 is heavily on the building side, where it would be the only one i would like to use it for now for, and the rest isn't worth the investment higher than the 1000 Euro mark in my opinion.

    To be honest, the t500rs is doing a good job for the price, and after some overhall on the belt tension it is even better than ever. I also think that a steering sys between 10-20 Nm is absolutly enough, because i feel as i would just need maybe the double power of the t500rs and maybe even less. There is not much what it misses on the torque side to feel more realistic as it already do, in my opinion. It also makes no sense to me to pay double or triple for a sys when it still wan't be high enough for every simulated cars peak torque levels to be 1:1.

    Just my opinion, but it is your choice, and there are some really nice out there atm, but not worth the investment for this purpose from my personal POV. ;)
     
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  20. Led566

    Led566 Registered

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    "Major" parts are:
    1.MIGE 130ST-M10010 sourced directly from Lisa Zhan-MIGE in China, it will be nearly 450€ CIF+Taxes&Duty Italy
    2.IONI Pro 1x already bought from indiegogo granite campaign, 150€
    3.48V 400W ali from ebay will be more than enough for 20 Nm peak, 50€ (or you could spend up to 150€ for a Meanwell...)
    4. Rest is Cables, adaptors, Discovery card, small ali, boxes, mount system for motor, clamping system for wheel, etc.

    I'm still hoping to slowly start to build the unit in June, will see, as speed mentioned, maybe it is better to wait a little and see what others, more experienced diy-ers will realise.
    Mr. Beano already has a IONI driven MIGE working, others will follow.

    Anyway I'll report the complete process.

    If it will work as expected, this is a complete no-brainer over anything on the market.
     
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