Tire model ( opinions )

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by coops, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Yup, paul's FFB settings.
     
  2. MerlinC

    MerlinC Registered

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    Did not do a comprehensive test of the new tire model with regard to improvements how tires are impacted by different settings (e.g. chamber, toe, pressure, etc.). But in my opinion such a test report should contain always supporting telemetrie data to have an objective assessment. It's not about being faster or slower than before - it's about how representative the tire model.

    To make an assessment my recommendation is that you use a well known track where you can do 10-20 laps at consistent lap, a well balanced set up and drive with 90-95% of what you could do at the best. Nordschleife it's propably not the best teack for this purpose [emoji6]

    Furthermore I'm a little bit surprised that some people have the expectation that snap oversteer will go away by a more representative tire model - I would recommend looking at the setup of the vehicle and the driving style. Very often snap oversteer is induced by lifting throttle mid corner and/or not optimized anti roll bar settings. You might say lifting throttle is not what I'm doing the telemetry data will tell you the truth as well[emoji6]

    simulation quality.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2015
  3. P.S.R.

    P.S.R. Registered

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    Great stuff, Paul :)
     
  4. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    The ones that went away were not flatspots, they were heat-related marks and not permanent damage :).
     
  5. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    i havent touched rf2 for about 7 months and i really like the new tyre model.
     
  6. Tony

    Tony Registered

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    I'll post here about the tyres after our online league race this Saturday with URD's Endurance cars @ Suzuka..

    Hotlapping with them is one thing, racing live opponents for 50min is another.. :rolleyes:
     
  7. MrWalton

    MrWalton Registered

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    Small Message but very important.
    I drive those steering settings for years(startet with first g25). not exactly ure settings but at the end with the same result.
    I did not know the right words in english but i think i can read the tyre. i feel it earlier.

    the second is the question what tyres u have. tyres for ABS and TC or not. i dount hnow how near rfactor here is at reality, but in reality thats are complete different tings. will say ABS tyres will not have a long life when u try to drive it with out that aids. same for TC.
     
  8. Guineapiggy

    Guineapiggy Registered

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    I'm not sure if I'm just imagining it after some time not using rFactor2 very much but I have to agree that this build has made the cars more... understandable. I'm not constantly having to second-guess the front tyres which was a huge obstacle to having fun in RF2 prior to this. It's early days yet but if this is a sign of things to come I've got to thank ISI for really caring about their platform and taking the community's issues seriously. The UI improvements alone are worth their weight in gold and the cars have definitely been tamed somewhat.
     
  9. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Usually I do feel every tinny difference, but how it's perceived by any individual can differ, so i like to ask you if you would be so gentle to test something for me.

    It's the FR_3_5_2014 and i do ride it last on palm beach with some personal changes on the ffb and car setup, while the car setup is nothing special for performance but the feeling. The changes are very little which you can do by a handfull steps by yourself.

    If you like so, the changes on the car are the steering angle at 13.5-14.5° - brake balance in cold at 59....... - soften F-R springs a bit - soften rear ARB a bit - set caster one step down and ride. :)

    And here the current ffb setup for this car and the t500rs drive, as follows:

    Car Multi currently under test for this car is 0.8

    T500RS Control Panel:
    80 - 100 - 100 -0 - 0 - by the game

    Json edited lines:

    Not sure if this first lines have any influence on an ffb wheel, but anyway i set it off

    "Other spring coefficient":0.0,
    "Other spring coefficient#":"Static spring effect rate (-1.0 to 1.0) for any other FFB-capable controllers",
    "Other spring saturation":0,
    "Other spring saturation#":"Static spring effect peak force (0.0 to 1.0) for any other FFB-capable controllers",


    "Steering resistance coefficient":0,
    "Steering resistance coefficient#":"Coefficient to use for steering resistance. Range: -1.0 to 1.0",
    "Steering resistance saturation":0,
    "Steering resistance saturation#":"Saturation value to use for steering resistance. Range: 0 - 1.0",
    "Steering resistance type":0,
    "Steering resistance type#":"0=use damping, 1=use friction",
    "Steering spring coefficient":0,
    "Steering spring coefficient#":"Static spring effect rate (-1.0 to 1.0)",
    "Steering spring saturation":0,
    "Steering spring saturation#":"Static spring effect peak force (0.0 to 1.0)",
    "Steering torque capability":12,
    "Steering torque capability#":"The maximum torque capability of the wheel (in Nm, obviously)",

    "Steering torque minimum":0.008,
    "Steering torque minimum#":"Minimum torque to apply in either direction to overcome steering wheel's 'FFB deadzone' caused by friction",

    "Steering torque sensitivity":1.74,
    "Steering torque sensitivity#":"Sensitivity curve applied to representable torques: 0.0=low 1.0=linear 2.0=high",
    "Steering torque zero-speed mult":0.1,

    And here with the last line i also don't know if it has an influence on the rolling friction and resistance but i set it low. Maybe this can be higher but i did let it there since the last change i did on the json, and didn't adjusted it back to the stand still resistance to match anyway. It's a bit light with some cars on stand but because the overall ffb felt good to me i didn't optimized it further since than.

    I hope i didn't forgot anything important, and i like to thank you in advance. Cheers ;)

    And sorry about the tires what the thread is about, but i have not enough seating time to say something special about, but what i'm sure about is, this feels incredible good to me, when considering the limitation involved. So maybe it's due to the tires as well but like to hold me back with any speculation about.
     
  10. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    tires pretty good in rf2, however I'd like them to feel a tad "sharper" with progressive loss of grip messaged by sound & ffb more

    eg slight squel sounds when tires partially losing traction (turning into full out skid sound when total loss of traction)
    & decreasing ffb weight to put emphasis on this ( like real feel in rf1 )

    some of these effects may not be present in the real world but in sim world we loose a lot of real world sensation so we must try & make up for this in every way we can

    p.s rf2 ffb is overall very good
     
  11. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    Great videos, and I do understand that temperatures can get very high from a locked tyre sliding on tarmac - but I still don't get why my inner tyre, partly or fully unloaded and NOT locked, raise to higher temps than the outer one. Typically my RIGHT!-front has more wear than my LEFT-front on a clockwise curcuit in rf2 - that's still a mystery to me...

    - the dendency has improved build by build though.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2015
  12. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    It's what separates rF2s tire model from all else out there. Always has, well at least for the last year and a half or so.
     
  13. crz

    crz Registered

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    Did you have a look at your telemetry? I also noticed that the inner wheel is more likely to heat up at certain tracks and I tried to figure out why. This is the braking zone for T1 at Sebring:

    [​IMG]


    It's a left hand turn and in the first graph you can see the inner wheel (red line) is slowing down faster than the outer wheel when I start braking. It's not locking up completely and there was no smoke in the replay but you can see the reaction of the front left tyre temperatures (second graph). Check it for yourself, I bet you suffer from the same thing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2015
  14. Miro

    Miro Registered

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    The data of one single corner is not enough to tell the whole storry. Steering inputs and suspension data would also be helpfull.
    The tires have a history aswell.

    I have noticed that even without locking up and smoke build up in the braking zones the tire heat build up and wear is very dependent on how you actually release the brakes. It makes a huge difference at the end of a stint if you are carefull at the end of the braking zones as the tires are most sensitive there. Can be up to 20% of tire wear in GT cars. The inner tire tends to suffer most in this phase of braking as you slightly shift the weight to the outside. There is almost no difference in driving if you don't pay attention to this detail. But if yo do, you'll be surprised how sensitive this is.
    However if you keep up driving without noticing this little detail the inner tire tends to suffer more and more through out the stint in the braking zones at most corners. Very easy to check at Interlagos, first corner.
     
  15. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Have I lost my mind or something? If your only turning right wouldn't the front left take the most load and therefor wear faster? Or was that a typo?
     
  16. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    LOL, you are right, I got things flipped around... My FR wears faster than FL on a clockwise circuit, DOH!
     
  17. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    Yes, that's exactly it...

    And, Mrslfrsl (?), I use MoTeC for all our races, and we do 6-24 hour endurance races once a month, this is a constant issue for me... I've noticed that braking deep into the corner makes it worse, but it's still without locking up - and the less load on the tyre should cause less friction, load typically transfers to outer wheel, which is also why it's easier to lock your inner wheel (which I don't)
     
  18. Miro

    Miro Registered

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    I guess I do the same races as you do so all I can tell you is listen to your tires carefully. ;)

    At Mid Ohio for example you have the second to last corner (right hander). You can go deep there and brake deep without locking up obviously but you punish the tire and you have sort of micro lockups when releasing the brakes at the limit (keep in mind the previous corner was a left hander where the right tire build up some heat already). After the start finish straight you have again the long lefthander and you punish the same tire again and then again the same storry into the second corner. The problem is thermal degradation. The more you heat em up the more sensitive they get every time. And at the end of the braking zones this is were you can calm that down somewhat without loosing any time if you pay attention to it.

    If all executed well through out the stint you can use those zones sometimes to even out the tire wear.
    And so on and so on ....
     
  19. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    VEC ? Tomas Beha, GTE-Pro ;)
     
  20. Miro

    Miro Registered

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    Yeah #30 GTS-R :p I am familliar with your car very well now lol.
     

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