Bmw e90 wtcc '06-'08

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by Slow Motion, Nov 17, 2014.

  1. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Hi guys,
    I'm working on this "evergreen" mod that gave us thousand of miles of true pleasure in the past.

    I asked the author(s) for some news about their potential plans in porting and setting the model to rFactor2, but any attempt was useless. The history of the mod is (I think) the conversion from another game to rFactor1, then the mod was reworked, changed, enhanced both graphically and physically.

    Now I ported it to rFactor2, changing what needed and adding several coefficients as usual due to the different options available in rF2... and the mod is running at its first step.

    Things to do:
    - right TGM for each compound (Medium - Hard - Wet), calibrating both performances and wears, etc...
    - AI calibration
    - Success Ballast (no answer by ISI and/or other guys here: http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/22520-Success-Ballast-and-the-new-chassis-How-to); the ballast now works using the old coefficients of rF1...
    - etc... etc... etc...

    I hope these cars will please you all!

    View attachment 14913
    View attachment 14914
     
  2. albim75

    albim75 Registered

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    Since this is a illegal conversion from race07 I think this thread must be closed.
    Turn3 studios already claim that any type of conversion are no more possible.
    This doesn't mean you are a thief, but probably you didn't know about that change of policy :)
     
  3. McFlex

    McFlex Registered

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    He knows it, but obviously ignores the forum rules. Shame on you mister Slow Motion. I can't believe people still try to spread their ripped stuff around here.
     
  4. PetraGTC

    PetraGTC Registered

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    cazenave and poulsen..... i cant remember giving permittion for other mods.... who knows, maybe i did, its been a long time since r07 left my pc :)
     
  5. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    You represent Sector 3/SimBin to give permission?
     
  6. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Bah, do you think I'm so idiot to work on this mod without an appropriate documentation and without any attempt to contact the authors?

    I found info about the authorization to the conversion to rFactor1. I also know that it was one of the most used mods on rFactor1.

    I also tried to contact the persons that state to be the authors of the conversion... aren't them? I sent an email without any answer back. I also found their website, but it seems no longer in activity by last March 2014. Anyway I sent an "internal" email to the administrator "PaVeL" and also this attempt was useless!
    I know that person (AmStaFF@raceskinning.de is Mike Kruger) and I had contacts in the 2008, but no way to have a contact this time.

    So, before writing, someone that posted a kind of "proclamation", must think, read up and respect others: I know I'm asking for a very difficult thing!

    I spent and I'm spending hundreds of hours in porting and setting the mod to the new level of rF2 and I'm not making this for stealing anything to anybody, but only for my pleasure and for giving new life to an "evergreen" mod; I was sure people enjoy it.

    THE FACTS:
    =======

    The text I found into the mod:

    ***Amstaff and www.RACESKINNING.de present***

    ****WTCC BMW E90 2006 - 2007 - 2008****
    **********3D-Modell from Thome***********

    Car-List:

    WTCC 2006
    Car Nr. 1 Andy Priaulx (GBR) BMW Team UK
    Car Nr. 4 Alessandro Zanardi (ITA) BMW Team Italy-Spain
    Car Nr. 5 Marcel Costa (ESP) BMW Team Italy-Spain
    Car Nr. 30 Luca Rangoni (ITA) Proteam Motorsport
    Car Nr. 40 Jan Magnussen (DEN) BMW Team UK
    Car Nr. 41 Duncan Huisman (NED) BMW Team Italy-Spain
    Car Nr. 42 Jörg Müller (GER) BMW Team Germany
    Car Nr. 43 Dirk Müller (GER) BMW Team Germany

    WTCC 2007
    Car Nr. 1 BMW Team UK Andy Priaulx (GBR)
    Car Nr. 2 BMW Team Germany Jörg Müller (GER)
    Car Nr. 3 BMW Team Germany Augusto Farfus (BRA)
    Car Nr. 4 BMW Team Italy-Spain Alessandro Zanardi (ITA)
    Car Nr. 5 BMW Team Italy-Spain Félix Porteiro (ESP)
    Car Nr. 14 BMW Team UK Fredrik Ekblom (SWE)
    Car Nr. 25 Team AVIVA Duncan Huisman (NED)
    Car Nr. 26 Wiechers-Sport Stefano D'Aste (ITA)
    Car Nr. 27 Team AVIVA Colin Turkington (GBR)
    Car Nr. 28 Elgh Motorsport Carl Rosenblad (SWE)
    Car Nr. 30 Scuderia Proteam Motorsport Luca Rangoni (ITA)
    Car Nr. 31 Scuderia Proteam Motorsport Sergio Hernández (ESP)
    Car Nr. 32 Scuderia Proteam Motorsport Davide Roda (ITA)

    WTCC 2008
    Car Nr. 1 BMW Team UK - Priaux (UK)
    Car Nr. 2 BMW Team Germany - Müller (GER)
    Car Nr. 3 BMW Team Germany - Farfus (BRA)
    Car Nr. 4 BMW Team Italy Spain - Zanardi (ITA)
    Car Nr. 5 BMW Team Italy Spain - Porteiro (ESP)
    Car Nr. 13 Borusan Otomotiv Motorsport - Okyay (TUR)
    Car Nr. 16 Wiechers Sport - Tielemans (NED)
    Car Nr. 33 Wiechers Sport - Cazenave (FRA)
    Car Nr. 26 Scuderia Proteam - D'Aste (ITA)
    Car Nr. 31 Scuderia Proteam - Hernandez (ESP)
    Car Nr. 42 Liqui Moly Team Engstler - Engstler (GER)
    Car Nr. 43 Liqui Moly Team Engstler - Romanov (RUS)
    Car Nr. 60 Poulsen Motorsport - Poulsen (DEN)
    Car Nr. 62 Borusan Otomotiv Motorsport - Biter (TUR)

    Skins made by Baco74, Berzerk, Pavel and Dorfmeister.

    Helmets made by Berzerk and Amstaff.
    ***THANKS ALOT IDT FOR THE PERMISSION OF THE CHAMPCAR HELMET***

    Sound made by DucFreak.
    ***THANKS ALOT!!***

    Physics made by dmatzies
    ***THANKS ALOT!!***

    Help and Support GHOSTFACE2K
    ***THANKS ALOT!!***

    FEATURES:
    **********************************************************

    - changable window banners on the cars to suit the individual look on each track

    - changable Dirt on the frontwindow

    - ForceFeedBack upgrades

    - Success Balast

    - 2 rfm's included: 1 x WTCC with original rules: no pitstop and and and...
    1 x league version with open rules including pitstops

    **********************************************************

    THANKS ALOT TO ALL WHO HELPED IN THE PLANNING, BUILDING AND FINALISING OF THIS CONVERSION!!!

    ESPECIALLY THANKS TO THOME FOR THE PERMISSION TO CONVERT THIS MOD!!

    Feedback or Bugs "AmStaFF@raceskinning.de"

    ========================

    As you can see, the sentence (IF IT IS TRUE!) is self explanatory: ESPECIALLY THANKS TO THOME FOR THE PERMISSION TO CONVERT THIS MOD!!
    And those guys made the mod in a very polite and regular way!
    I didn't hide and hides the origin of the mod and that is a conversion to rFactor1 and I found it was made with the authorization. Now, if somebody knows another address to contact the author, I'll be very happy to ask him/them, otherwise I can only write their credits.
    To end the discussion, here is the email I sent:
    From - Thu Nov 06 16:06:21 2014
    X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
    X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000
    X-Mozilla-Keys:
    Message-ID: <545B8E6B.2040306@symracing.net>
    Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 16:06:19 +0100
    From: Slow Motion <slowmotion@symracing.net>
    User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    To: AmStaFF@raceskinning.de
    Subject: WTCC BMW E90 2006 - 2007 - 2008 porting to rFactor2
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    Hello,
    I'm interested into porting this "evergreen" mod to rFactor2 adding new
    physical coefficients and features like the TGM tire, the new flexible
    chassis and suspensions, new FFB coefficients, etc...

    I'd like to know if you are planning the same or if you are interested
    into participating or if you want only credits added into the
    description of the rfcmp.

    Many thanks in advance,
    Marco
     
  7. PRC Steve

    PRC Steve Registered

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    Keep up the good work slow motion. Thumbs up !!!
     
  8. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    +1
     
  9. albim75

    albim75 Registered

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    the fact is this mod is probably as conversion from the rfactor1 version that at the same time was ripped off from Race07.
    I never said you were thief if you remember, but I suggest you to read my previous reply "Since this is a illegal conversion from race07 I think this thread must be closed.
    Turn3 studios already claim that any type of conversion are no more possible.
    This doesn't mean you are a thief, but probably you didn't know about that change of policy"
     
  10. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    I believe it's not from Race07. I believe it was a mod for GTR2, converted to rF1...

    EDIT: "By: MaNTzEl aka AmStaFF
    Origin: Composite | Real World
    Category: Touring
    Initial release: 07-Sep-08
    Current release: 1.000, on 07-Sep-08

    Amstaff and www.RACESKINNING.de present

    WTCC BMW E90 2006 | 2007 | 2008 | 3D-Modell from Thome

    Even though the car model might make you think that, this is not a conversion of Simbin’s RACE but a much revamped conversion of Thome’s GTR2 mod."

    http://www.r4-sims.com/forum/index.php?topic=560.0
     
  11. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Thank you albim75 for your explanation and, believe to me, I'm the last people that want to discuss.

    The facts are a little bit different by your way to see them... maybe.
    The facts state (reading the documentation I found) the mod about 7 years ago was authorized to be converted to rFactor1 at least by the author of the 3d.
    The facts state that everything was done by those German guys without hiding any information.
    The facts state I asked the rightful owners of the mod (that are the ones that converted the mod to rFactor1 and not SimBin or turn3).
    The facts state the incoming mod for rFactor2 is ported from the rFactor1 mod that was authorized at least by "Thome" and no longer linked to the one of Simbin.

    Like an easy calculation of basic arithmetic there is nothing of anomalous in what I'm doing. I hope you can review your ideas because, as you can see, the rFactor1 version of the mod isn't an illegal conversion as you claim, nor my job. Turn3 or Simbin are free to change their policy but nothing can interfere with something made 7 years ago and already authorized!

    I hope we can close here this "exchange of ideas". We are here to enjoy a short "rest" and to have few funny and relaxing time...

    Obviously our discussion are related to an short word: IF the documentation I found is correct... now that BJorn says that the rF1 mod was a conversion from GTR2 mod made by Thome I think we can really stop to waste our time. What I'd really like is to find one of those guys...
     
  12. albim75

    albim75 Registered

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    just to be clear.
    I supposed that was a ripped off version.
    If not feel free to continue developing the mod :)
    The fact is, since I'm one of the testers for T3 studios, we are experiencing many ripped off cars and tracks, especially illegal mods for AC.
    So I check sometimes other forums and see what is happening.
     
  13. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    +1
     
  14. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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    Very insightful post....
    Looks like T3 has not only changed the policy. Competition is hard these days. I expect to see more forum police in the future. :(
     
  15. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    There seems to be a lack of communication here.

    Let's be clear--authorization from previous modders is not needed unless their work was scratch-made content. Converting an already illegal mod from one platform to another doesn't make it less illegal. If this mod was originally based off GTR2 rather than RACE07 is irrelevant since they are both SimBin/Sector 3 titles.

    On the other hand, if it was based on GTR2 and if there is essentially nothing left of the original content, then it's up to Sector 3 to pursue if they think they can demonstrate/prove the link to their work. This may or may not be worth the bother, but it's their call.

    So what is the real situation? A mod made from content ripped from GTR2 or essentially a total re-work inspired by the car that was originally in GTR2?

    Then, the second problem. BMW and the race series and the individual race teams and the individual race drivers could all be upset if their likenesses are being recreated without permission. Irrelevant whether SimBin had permission and licensing years ago. Relevant even if it is/was 100% scratch-made. This is my favourite part--people squabbling over permissions from previous-generation modders who never had authorization from the interested parties in the first place!

    However, this mod was so popular in rF1 for years and none of those parties complained...

    It's all grey area, so there are two simple rules:

    1) Modders pay attention to these issues so your hard work is not potentially wasted when the true owners of content or likenesses come along and say no later down the road.

    2) If any user doesn't like any part of this, then don't download and use, or pay, for any mod that may not have a pure history. No need to debate the 90% of it that is irrelevant each and every time a mod comes out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2014
  16. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    Marc C, I think it was A MOD, made FOR GTR2. Nothing to do with the original GTR2-files. So as long as Slow Motion can obtain Thomes and Mike Krügers' (GTR2 to rF1-converter to my knowledge) blessing, he's good to go... I would though, ask dmatzies, since he is still a highly regarded member of the community in my book... dmatzies has achieved a lot with the DRM cars. I would mos def ask him if it's okay to use his physics... And he should still be around and easily contactable!
     
  17. albim75

    albim75 Registered

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    I assume but most of the time I got it right :)
    Normally I compare the screens by just letting see the 3d model to the 3d modeller.
    This is how it works.
    I don't see a bad attitude from my point of view, in fact later I wrote this "just to be clear. I supposed that was a ripped off version.If not feel free to continue developing the mod :) .The fact is, since I'm one of the testers for T3 studios, we are experiencing many ripped off cars and tracks, especially illegal mods for AC. So I check sometimes other forums and see what is happening."
     
  18. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Ops... I'm really sorry for what is happening. I understand that people can have different opinions and that sometime persons that aren't native speakers of English can have some more difficulties in explaining their thoughts. Said that and saying I'm not the right person to judge the behavior of "albim75" because of I'm "part of the dispute", I kindly ask you all to enjoy your life and your hobby, where rF2 should be part of your pleasure!
    Bjorn gave me the input to contact Dennis to have some clarifications (if they still need!) about the history of the mod. In addition it is a very good idea because this could be the right way to have a contact with the authors and the written authorization for the job I'm making.

    In conclusion, I want to remark that my thought was and is to get pleasure in making this mod for rFactor2, to share it with the community and to see it alive for the next years, because I vote it one of the best mod of ever!
     
  19. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Just trying to end once again the issue, now, working on gear file I noticed the first line:

    // GTR2 BMW_E90 GEAR_RATIOS by thome converted to rFactor by MaNTzEl

    So please albim75 stop to continue to annoy people with false accusations.

    1. Simbin has nothing to do with the mod
    2. the mod for rFactor was authorized by Thome and the Raceskinning.de guys had and have the full rights
    3. I'll continue to develop the mod for rFactor2 with all credits to the legitimate authors if I haven't an answer back from them
    4. not sure if I'll be pleased to share the mod with certain kind of people
     
  20. Led566

    Led566 Registered

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    While you contact Matzies for this mod, ask a permission also for DRM.

    He publicly stated he isn't interested in porting DRM to rF2 because he is not confident over rF2 future (he calls rF2 "rF1.5").

    This is a shame and we all know that DRM MUST be ported to rF2.
    rF2 as it is now is the perfect platform for DRM, so someone else should do the porting.
    The materials is already in there and is first class quality.
     

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