Seriously, you should teach high level managers of Apple. They will be delighted to know they have no clue about running their own busisness, they will be very glad to learn from you that they can save a lot of money. You have a bright future as a consultant, no doubt about it. Why don't you avoid making affirmations out of your domain of knowledge or experience? Cheers and have fun racing, I have missed very few of your very good videos.
Yeah, and that's kinda like judging a gokart track and it's karts by how neat and clean the locker room looks...
Pardon me but i dont entirely cancel the need for marketing. Wut i mean is if something is good, the good thing abt it will do the marketing itself. Without the need to surround it with sfx and hot chicks just to make it look osum.
You are totally right, it is as ridiculous as not hiring a worker for a job because he is not adequately dressed the day of the interview. It is very difficult to change the first impression of a client which is mainly acquired in the five first minutes. You can go on for ages like this, be assured that people who didn't like how the demo looked are not reading this forum, and true believers like you and me, like the actual UI a little more every day. When my faith falters, I just read all the positive posts about it as a penitence for my lack of faith, I devote a few hours every week end instead of racing, to create SMICONs and ICONS, and then repackage my teams and cars to have a preview available of my new skins (as was the case in the very old RF1 circa 2005 without having nothing to do). If ISI developpers think they should devote efforts to improve the UI, we can may be think they know what they are doing? Cheers.
Yes and without skills, knowledge or experience the locker room is the only difference you can see. I'll never forget how amazed I was with the depth of rf1 physics when I returned to rf1 after having significantly developed my skills, knowledge and experience in rF2. It was like putting eyeglasses on.
Correct. Sim racing is not readily "user friendly" But that absolutely does not mean the software has to be unfriendly too. That's confusing the issue. Some sims have very simple and easy to use UI's, others are relatively poor (and I put R3E as worse than RF2, it's an awful interface). I think really this argument is about the same old sim snobbery. "Why should we make our precious accessible to others who aren't as obsessed as us?" Which is fine, but then you can't complain about the lack of modders, servers and community interest in the sim. I'm not saying the UI is a deliberate ploy to drive the less hardcore away. But when people try discuss these things, same as controller support, graphics fidelity, unfixed bugs etc, and all they get in response is "Ui isn't important, Graphics aren't important, bugs aren't important" you can see why they think you're all nuts. From statements like those, it often seems many of you would be happy still playing Pole Position on the Spectrum 48 (just so long as the FFB was ok ).
Tim stated few pages ago that he hasn't been confident with marketing rF2 much, but that this is slowly changing. Currently the first information you get on websites outside ISI is that rF2 is still in beta (GameSpy review and Wiki site, IGN says release date TBA) or that it's a "bittersweet" product (Inside Sim Racing and some other YT reviews, Empty Box etc.).
Yes, I think Tim is right, the product is progressing adequatly if slowly (it is a pleasure to follow it's progress) but still has areas not mature enough to push it on the general market. Do you know the E.S. mod for RF1, would you imagine the stupid amount of work simply required to offer a preview of cars in the UI (with the number of cars it has it is a must)? I began with RF2 in december last year, I have had to change the color and reflectivity of my skins three times (I have left them as they are now, I'll wait until the dust settles). It has a wonderful rain feature but no working wipers, and it rains in the pits. Would you imagine the type of killer critic you could write with some ill will? For a SIM which one of the main selling points is an advanced tire model, can you with a straight face, market it agressively, when tire temps don't react to geometry or pressure? Can you push it, when there is still no car using features of the contact patch, and that every existing car will have to be revised to use the advanced features? Call it as you want (Beta, Advanced Beta), it doesnt detract that you can have a lot of fun with it already, and all the test miles we put on it help improve the product and it's stability. The sim market is full of products who don't work four years after their release (I am thinking of many Flight Sims), it doesn't need another one. A simple pro sim uses 5 powerful workstations running in paralell to animate a single car (Google for racing sims, I read a very interesting paper from a British University who developped one for a racing team - not a F1 team-). In the mean time have fun racing with it (i really enjoy myself with it a lot), and have realistic expectations, don't think that a 50 $ sim will use adequately all the ressources of a 3.000 $ rig. Cheers.
Yes Lgel, the list goes on and on.... I´ve never made an overall bug report, because it would take five pages and a lot of work to write it! One big thing that belongs in that list (and what I forgot to mention in my previous post) is the not existing documentation (for end-users). Newbies have to search the forum (for hours eventually) to know the things they got to know to setup the sim with all theire possibilitys. That´s ridiculous!
To be fair, I don't mean that UI should be unfriendly. What I mean is that I consider sim racing to be a technical hobby in that there is a lot to learn about driving, racing, race engineering, hardware, league navigation, general community insanity, etc. It is way more of a hobby than a game. Can gamers enjoy sim racing software? Sure. But it's a hobby that requires development of significant skills, knowledge and experience. Compared to the overall learning curve and investment required to PROPERLY take advantage of all the sim racing hobby has to offer, the UI learning curve is totally negligible, nothing, nada, minuscule, zip, zilch, zero. That is not to say that there will not be some small return on investment as clueless gamers who have no plans to invest any effort in skill development or even clicking twice instead of once so they can binge on combos may be more likely to buy rF2 if it had a better user interface. Unfortunately, only 1 in a thousand of these snot noses will become true sim racers so investment is better spent on actual simulation so when pre-teens learn to wipe their asses then maybe they'll be ready to invest an extra mouse click before putting in actual laps actually testing for an actual league race with actual sim racers. Also I'm running rF2 out of the box so all those arguments about living in text files are no longer valid.
Totally agree with you I wrote to Tim in an other post about the lack of documentation. I use a free flight sim Flightgear, on some planes the tutorial is an animation that guides you toward the different keys you need to activate before taking off, and there is another thick manual about flying provided too. You can fly in minutes instead of days. I didn't intend to write a lists of bugs, just big areas of development still in early stage, that explain why you can't pretend it is a 1.0 version. I still remember I was advised when I bought RF1 in june 2011 by my friends that I was wasting my money because RF2 would go the market before year end... Cheers.
And there it is again. It's almost like you can't stop yourselves. "snot-noses, pre-teens....." These are your fellow gamers man. Were you not a noob yourself once? And is it the uber-simmers that make all the mod content? I know a few mod makers, and many can't drive for crap. Are you saying you WANT them to move on to other platforms (which many are doing already) because they don't have your driving skills? Play nice.
"Pick one and enjoy" - EmptyBox Srsly UI doesnt bother me at all. its nice to have a nice one. But when im clickin in UIs, my mind is already thinking abt the driving. To me pCars, AC and rf2 all have the same UI. - Select track, cars and click race. But thats just me
View attachment 14839 Disclaimer: Snot nose loss and snot nose-to-true sim racer ratios are made up but you get the idea.
Yes effectively, select track, cars and click race. I hope you like my ALD Ferrucio, I am very proud of this skin. View attachment 14840 If you want to see all the Ferrucios in the UI to chose the one you want to race while seing the others, make SMICON ans ICON for all of them (search in the forum how to create those two files), repackage Team.mas, and the Vehicle, uninstall previous version of the car via the mod manager, install new version of car, and you are done. And no it is not enough to drop the icons in the folder of the virtual drive (or at least it was so, maybe it has been changed but I have not been informed of it). I really would like to be wrong on this one, and be corrected by someone, but if you look at mas files of teams made by ISI thats how they have done it. Easy, I am sure everyone here knows how to do it, but it is so tedious that many modders don't offer this preview of cars. Totally automatic in a vintage game called RF1 of a certain software house named ISI. Thats why my Ferrucios are V1.81 not because I am a priviligied tester of Aless's new version, my Darches are now at version 1.85 (done this five times, and I have more skins to package...) Yes, click and race. Cheers.
Brilliant graph! Do the same with "snot noses"-->"potential users / press people" and "UI" --> "first impression" and "True Sim Racers" --> "rF2 Users / appearance in press" and you have pretty much summed it up. Just a disclaimer: I like rF2 pretty much. In fact it is the only sim (computer game even) that I regularly (read "all the time") play. So, when earlier in this thread I talked about first impressions and "don't put your child in danger" and all that it was out of concern. One might argue that I must not be concerned and I really hope that's true!
better UI???better sells for isi,seriously???do you guys race(drive)rf2 or just here on forum to be smart(why dont you guys gather all together and make some sim game wich will have all stuff you want) some people came here from another game wich is another game with different UI and probably engine or just discoverer new game and want somthing like that in rf2. well what about us who like rf2 ui just like it is now(to tell you the true I never thought of changing rf2 ui,i know what to do and then go to race) i dont mind if ui got better i know i will need few days or maybe hours to get used to it and thats it,but i mind when people think they own rf2 and think they can change anything they like(not just ui). it make me sad mad,i know its just small% of them but this small% of them make people not to be so often on this forum .always same old story and same people arguing about same things,and here there some new face pop up and joins legion of me,me,me and me this is rf2 not ac,pcars...and i would like it to stay rf2.go race people i raced leagues with other sims with much more problems then rf2 have now. and guess what we raced and was great expirience and we was thankfull when we got updates. sometimes was on better sometimes not but we still raced.why?because we knew it take time to make things to be done and we didnt push devs in any way,so at the end everyone was happy with updates. me,me,give,give,when,not realistic,bugs,bugs,dead,gold,UI,new build,new,new,more,more....and then you asking why rf2 is taking so long for some things to be fixed. do you realy think that isi dont want all that stuff you guys ask for to be done?then you have problems with yourself!!it takes time people asking that much staff from devs i think making them rush make more possibilly to produce more bugs. i know you,me and isi would love this product in one year to be finished but thats impossible like they say when they got rf2 beta out.they need time,maybe years.its your mine problem if we canot wait chill out people and go race whatever you like to race rf2,ac,pcars,gsc,ir...if you like racing,if dont bad for you go and write a book or something.out in nature's great you know
Nice rant bro. But it was Tim himself that brought the subject up: "I'm very excited about the near future. I see less and less issues to wait for, to be scared of pushing too much, and frankly with a new UI alone I think the first impression alone will be massively different." People were mostly just agreeing with him. Still, good rant all the same.
First impressions are critical. It seems to some, the UI is an issue. My opinion is that anything that can bring more users to rF2 should be done asap. Be it UI improvements, physics improvements, whatever. Its been identified as an issue, ISI say it's an issue...... That's kind of the bottom line.
