Build 798 Tires

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jimcarrel, Jul 22, 2014.

  1. Gapi

    Gapi Registered

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    The way the tires gain and lose temperture is absolutely amazing!
    Just watch this vid and compare to rF2 when driving it hard

     
  2. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    The way you comment about tire improvement makes one think previous builds sucked. I will wait for next build and read about new tire improvements that will make this new wonderful feelings you are describing suck. It is the same as fps. If we sum all the fps improvements some people report every time a build is released we would be playing over 200 fps. I will still wait for official confirmation. Placebo effect has been proven very powerful especially with kids.
     
  3. myself9

    myself9 Registered

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    My belief is that we haven't been playing with a "finished" tire model. Am I incorrect?
     
  4. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    The entire software package is a WIP. Or as ISI calls it "constantly evolving" product.
     
  5. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Sucked? Not really. Like I said the other guy that he shouldn't look at tire changes in black-white colours only. Each change has it's upsides and downsides. Since we don't have opportunity to measure how good/realistic given tire model is (and it's evolving all the time in the background. Not saying that ISI experiments with values. I would say they are changing the way how the sim interprets given values and how it uses given numbers to simulate actions and performance of each tire), it all goes down to a feeling. I like the feeling I've got in B798. That's it. Will I say when next build comes out that I like it better? Maybe. I believe that if ISI changes sth in that department it is because the new way is simply better than the old one. So I don't see anything wrong in saying that sth is better while one has been singing songs about previous build etc. If next build brings another improvements which will make tires perform even better but feel somehow (in theory which I doubt will happen) will be worse then I will have to deal with it. Adapt.

    About improvements in fps. Why would you think that improvements automatically mean more fps? There have been only few builds that gave me really big boosts in fps. Few that made it just a tad worse (talkng about 5-10 fps less) but most of them made my fps more stable. For me it is far more imporatant to have stable fps than having them piled up but flactuating like crazy. So if a build gives me improvement in fps department it can also mean that I used to have 50-75 fps around a track and after update I had 60-75. Maximum fps didn't improve but lower end got better. Isn't that an improvement? It is.

    Placebo? Well I ruled it out once I did many back to back tests with several people and everyone felt the same. With few I didn't even mentioned that there has been a change and yet they said that sth felt altered. You are acting like we've been talking about biggest change ever. While in truth it is a subtle change that made it better for me.

    Did you try it yourself, I wonder.
     
  6. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    That doesn't matter. Just a smaller detail.
    He's just right. He knows he's right.
    Just look at those posts man. He's a guy who has figured it all out, not a doubt in his mind.

    Calling us all kids, suckers pulled in by "the placebo effect" that we're all experiencing.
    He's wise to all that stuff, no one's fooling him.

    There's not a doubt in his mind that ISI didn't tweek some sort of deep buried code that would present itself as a slight change in how the tires/ffb feels.
    Oh no. He's the man. The man knows.

    /end of sarcastic rant
     
  7. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    Well futile or not :) but I'd also like to express my thoughts that something may have changed. Feeling is different and I don't have exact words to describe it. Also only driven URD EGT so far and only like 60 minutes or so.

    I'm also suspecting it has something to do with the real road as with rubbered track driving doesn't feel that different than what I remember it being before. But as always these comparisons to previous builds are very difficult. It could be placebo, of course, but on the other hand so many are reporting the same so I BELIEVE if there's smoke then there's also fire. :)

    Does it now feel better or worse than before? I can't tell - I'm not a race driver in real life. However there's something similar as driving go-karts. Usually I get this feeling from go-kart tires that at first they feel more rigid/stiff (when cold) even though grip may not be there yet. As tires heat up they start to feel softer/slide more forgivingly - as opposed to cold tires which snap aggressively. So driving rF2 with green track now kind of feels like riding on those rigid/stiff tires and driving on rubbered track on those heated up forgiving tires. Terrible explanation/analogy I know but that's the best I have to offer! :)

    Would be nice to hear from ISI what they have changed. If they honestly don't know/have not intentionally changed anything then I can't help thinking maybe something got broken? But it can also be the other way around; they have "accidentally fixed" something when reorganizing stuff. What I mean with this is some tire physics feature got accidentally disabled at some previous build (or has never been in use before) and now they may have accidentally re-enabled it. I know it doesn't sound believable, almost at all, but it's not impossible either. :)

    Whether it be good or bad at least it's same for all. :) EDIT: Even it there was no change at all! :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2014
  8. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    You have some good points mate. Nice.
     
  9. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Registered

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    Interresting. Now that we can tweak RR speed, and AFAIK default before was x10 (or x5?) and default now is x5, do you guys set it to "Normal Speed" or kept it at x5? Personally I navigate between Normal x1 and x5, my average race is 5 loop so I want to have some benefit from RR even with those short races. Just this RR speed can explain part of this change in feeling I guess? and possibly they also tweaked RR on visual side. I mean: when before we had a certain level of RR visually it could have been grip value x, and now is grip value Y for the same visual. I also have the same feeling something changed from start of a race when the road is clean and tires are cold, and speed of RR changed the feeling during the race...or not ;) (<= that I call "speculation")
     
  10. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    The change of feeling could very well be Real Road related for sure.

    I keep the acceleration at x1 now. That's most enjoyable for me personally.
     
  11. jimcarrel

    jimcarrel Registered

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    At the age of 62, I am very proud to be called a kid, thank ya very much!
    You can wait as long as you wish, I'll stay a "kiddy" just as long as I wish.
    I don't recall anyone saying last builds suck. If they did, you wouldn't get to harass a few people having a discussion. Because they wouldn't be here. It would just be too sucky to stick around.

    With that dear spaskis. I bid you good night.
     
  12. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    Some of those who see me driving a racing simulator tell me I'm still a little boy... and rest of them are more polite. ;)
     
  13. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    So you are both saying that if ISI denies any changes in tire model or FFB they would be bloody liars. Aren't you?Are you confirming officially tire model/FFB has changed?
    If so, tell the OP to change the title to CONFIRMED: New Tire or FFB model in B798. But please before doing that, since you are so sure and so much experts, PLEASE clarify if it is one or the other, so that we are all aware.

    As I said, but some read what they want, I HAVE NOT TRIED MYSELF. I AM OUT OF HOME AND DON'T HAVE MY G27 WITH ME. Anyway my opinion would not matter either. What I would expect is ISI confirming or denying it. If it is as good as you are saying they should have included it within the release notes, which is what they are for instead of letting all this rumorology go on. I think I am in my right to ask for that whether you like it or not. Thanks and goodnight to everybody
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2014
  14. alpha-bravo

    alpha-bravo Registered

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  15. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    I for one keep it at 1x and for longer tracks on which I most of the time do hotlapping
    I set the grip to "auto save" all the time, so I can have a "personal" track-condition.
    For tracks on which I do races I have made a save, and always load it before a race weekend.

    That´s really deep racing for me!! Best experience you can have in a racing sim.

    Btw.: I drive every day on different tracks and different cars in different conditions
    (that´s what it´s all about in Rf2) and therefor the feeling is different all the time!
    So I must lie or can´t really tell if/that something has changed.....

    I bet Tim and other stuff members are very amused about this discussion! ;)
    My opinion after all: it´s all so complicated and different, you can´t even tell! LOL

    Edit: OMG!!! SPASKIS you even didn´t tried this but you are the loudest of all!!! LOOOOL!!
    Thats.....(insert rant and/or naming here)!!!!
     
  16. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    You are awfully loud for a guy who haven't even tried it yet...
    Caps lock and everything. Really got you heated this stuff, didn't it?

    And you know what's funny..?

    As soon as you sit down and have a go yourself, you will maybe be able to convince yourself that there is NO difference at all.
    Even if you do feel a slight difference.
    Because now you've martyrly stood up for that viewpoint on the forums, and even if you actually felt that little difference you'd never come on here and admit it.
    Pathetic at best.

    Well, on to more important things.

    Seems there's more data to back up the claim that something indeed has changed, something that in some way makes the tires/ffb feel different.
    Ronnie told me about telemetry comparisons from earlier build to this build.
    Don't know if he wants to share something here or elaborate, but nevertheless, very interesting stuff.
    More stable tire temps, slip angle stuff and so on. Definitely something changed.
     
  17. Eddy

    Eddy Registered

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    Dunno about data, what i do know is that with this build i get more and more into the so called "ZONE"
    Could be me driving every night and getting more and more experienced. Could be a change which is not in the release notes.

    What i do know is that Tim said: "better have changes in the sim and not mentioned in the notes, than the other way around ;)". On which i agree.

    Speculation or not dear Spaskis, i know it feels pretty darn good for me and if i read this thread a lot of people beside me do think that way also.
    And back here in the Dutchy lands (Netherlands or Holland) they have a saying about this that is like: where there is smoke.....there is fire.

    People in here don't want to miss inform nobody, they just discus what they feel. What is wrong about that. Just peeps who enjoy their simracing hobby and talking about that. Nothing wrong with that imho.

    I wish you a good night too.
     
  18. FatCity

    FatCity Registered

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    Never a truer word spoken :)
     
  19. Coanda

    Coanda Registered

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    Com'on guys we should be better than this.. In the grand scheme of the universe this is all rather insignificant. We are pretty lucky to even have such toys to play with. Please don't misunderstand me when I use the word "toys". I love motor racing and take my driving somewhat seriously however we should be coming here to have a good time and share knowledge. I see allot of petty unwarranted ugliness around this place. It is great to have an opinion and also share constructive criticism however these testosterone word battles are, in my opinion, pointless and childish. Save that energy and aggression for the track ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2014
  20. coops

    coops Banned

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    agree
     

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