Hi, I'm setting up my car in F1RFT 2013 Total at F1RFT 07 Montreal and I'm trying to get the tire temperature of my tires to match the temperature profiles that are shown on the infrared screens shown during the broadcast of the real F1 cars when they are driven on the actual race course. In the real F1 race car as shown on tv, the inside edge of the front tires get hot in the corners and then cool off on the straights. While adjusting tire pressure, toe-in and aero during my vehicle setup, I noticed that all four tires were hotter at the end of the long main straight prior to braking for the last corner As a test to get the tires to run as cool as possible, I set the toe-in front to minimum and rear and the aero front and rear to minimum. I then drove the car carefully to the start of the straight so all four tires were at reasonable temps and accelerated out of the hairpin without spinning the rears. At the end of the straight, the tire temps shown on the lcd display were hotter for all four tires which is not typical in the real world. Am I doing something wrong or is there a problem with the mod or with rf2 tire patch engine. thx
I'm not familiar with the mod you're using but your concern is quite vague without your setup and some data. I do believe though that the temps in the HUD represent tire carcass or core temps and not really surface temps but that's just my opinion.
Think it's the other way round Jamie. HUD temps are basically surface, hence the fluctuations. As for the OP comparing to IR images - do you know what temperature the rubber goes from black to purple? I would guess not. Makes it difficult to compare really. There are issues with most/all tyres, and that is probably rF2 itself. But when you're using a third party mod you're at the mercy of the mod maker as well.
I'm not sure what the actual tire temps are for the colors of the thermal imaging shown on tv, I was only watching for tire temp increasing or decreasing. One fellow suggested that my tire pressures could be low so I changed to max psi on all four tires and the tire temp continues to build on the straights.
Thermal Imaging cameras are relative. Colors don't represent a fixed temperature. The cameras calibrate their range... a set range will be defined with a lower threshold (move the point of zero) which is higher than track temp+{x} where x is the typical differential between road and tyre at full aerodynamic load, therefore you only see temp increases on TV under braking. Coolest in the picture is black, and everything else is relative to that. You'll notice the road remains black, even tho track temp is 40+ degrees. rFactor isn't relative, other than to zero. The color palette will have fixed points where it changes (whether this is handled on a per car basis, I dunno). Best analogy is flipping the range switch on a multimeter. If the multimeter is set to whole kOhms, then it will take a kOhm to move it past 0. So, you can't compare the two basically...
Can't beat friction / physics. It's impossible to do the above and have the tyres NOT get hotter. If you are accelerating, friction is building and so therefore is heat. Your tyres will only ever hold a constant temp whilst travelling at a constant speed on a consistent surface, but it will take time to get to equilibrium. Find a circuit with a 100 mile perfect level straight. Accelerate to full, then hold it on the limiter. You are no longer accelerating. Aero load is no longer increasing. All factors become constants, and thus tyre temps will BEGIN to level out and eventually sit at a constant temp, until you start to brake. You won't find a (real) circuit in the world where there's a straight where you're on the limiter for long enough for all forces to reach constant for long enough to allow the tyres to settle to any form of steady state.
In straights temperatures go down because of the important air cooling effect at the top of the wheel travelling at twice the car speed. According to your reasoning, temps would always go up and they don't. In some parts of the track they warm up and in others they cool down. Among those others we have straights. enviado mediante tapatalk
today I'm running F1RFT 2013 Spielberg on F1qrm.com. I loaded the default setup then I changed tire pressure f-r to max, aero f-r to min and toe-in/out f-r to min. If I watch thermal imaging on tv, tire temp goes down on the straights and up in the corners. With the setup I described, tire temp goes up on the straights and as well as up in the corners. If the tire temp rises on the straights when the setup should be the coldest possible, it appears that there is a problem with the rf2 tire patch engine.
You aren't understanding Lazza and Marc when they are telling you this. Both fellows explained quite clearly.
Try an official ISI mod before asking to fix anything. You will avoid the possibility that the car you are using has bad physics. I have already asked to review water cooling effects. Wet tires last longer in dry road than when raining. And it is because of temperature/pressure increase. Cooling effect of water is poorly or simply not included. Tested with Civics at Loch Drummond. enviado mediante tapatalk
I don't agree. The guy is saying that tire temps increase in straights. It has nothing to do with scale. It is increasing vs decreasing. enviado mediante tapatalk
If the temperatures are always rising wouldn't you get infinitely hot tyres? Why don't you use the motec plugin and share your telemetry to have much more information to help. And I would look if the Renault shows the same behaviour. Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
If considering airflow over tyre... Increase airflow and you increase aero load and therefore vertical load. If a constant speed hasn't been achieved, then the cooling effect of airflow over tyre is also not constant, therefore equilibrium is not achieved. Yes, airflow slows the heating of the tyre on straights, but you will invariably find tyres are always warmer at the end of a straight than at the start as the cars are typically accelerating or braking for a larger percentage of the time than they are at a constant. Indeed depending on the car, you'll find exhausts were at one point ducted over rear tyres to increase tyre heating and minimise the cooling effect of airflow. This aids in keeping the tyre temps more steady as it allowed greater control of the temperature, more so than airflow, and improves grip. (See Renault 2008 F1 spec.) Temps aren't always rising. Only when friction is increasing. However, a tyres frictional co-efficient also decreases as temperature increases. However, as CoF decreases, so does slip, and up goes the friction again. Lateral and vertical load, tyre deformation, airflow, all play their part. You can't simplify it down to "go faster = more airflow = more cooling = tyres SHOULD be cooler". You guys are trying to massively oversimplify some very complex physics to support a relative observation. Don't. You can't look at tyres like this. What we're also saying is SCALE. In F1 you can't SEE the tyre heating/cooling/steady state on the straights because it's occuring below the lowest unit of scale the camera is reading at. If the thermal camera is calibrated to cover a wide temp range, where color band shifts every 50degC, then from 0-49degC you won't see any color variance. Everything from 50-99degC will also be the same color. Everything from 100-149degC will also be the same color. Temps could be going up and down wildly within each unit of the scale, but you won't see that. You will only see LARGE changes and these only occur under braking and immediately afterwards.
Nobody is saying that equilibrium is achieved in straights which for sure isn't. But that does not imply that temperature keeps going up. It just means that all components are changing. Actually heat removal is very high at high speeds in straights, where lateral forces are very low and slippage is minimum. In curves usually the heating component is higher than the cooling one. Throughout a lap in a standard track, tire temperatures go up and down. You can make the post as long as you want. It wont give you the reason. It is as simple as including a motec graph about temperatures to prove you wrong. Unfortunately I dont have my PC with me. I will do it later. enviado mediante tapatalk
Here you have a video where you can perfectly see how tire temps evolve throughout a lap at Hockenheim. It is the Civic so front wheels provide traction. I don't have any log of formula cars since I mainly drive touring and GT cars. So please Marc, explain us where in the video can it be appreciated the behaviour that you so technically described: Yes, airflow slows the heating of the tyre on straights, but you will invariably find tyres are always warmer at the end of a straight than at the start as the cars are typically accelerating or braking for a larger percentage of the time than they are at a constant.
If your tyres are relatively cold in the corner, they will likely heat up on the straight. If they are hot coming out of the corner, they will cool on the straight. That's pretty much the bottom line.
I do not want to disturb but please do not forget wheels with camber tend to run to the outside, the meaning of friction at the inner flanks/edge. There are many factors but I have not read everything, please excuse, just wanted to give a hint.
Yes, but usually that only happens in the lap coming out of the pits when tires are really cold. The lap which I recorded was the second lap after leaving the pitlane. The behaviour of heating tires in the straight can only be seen in the previous lap in my telemetry. This lap should never be taken into account for any kind of analysis. Heat generation due to friction is very different in turns and straights due to sliding which is the key factor. NO SLIDING NO FRICTION ENERGY LOST. In a curve sliding is necessary due to known things I will not cover. In a straight, only camber and pressure affect a bit. For sure, when you spin traction wheels accelerating or block tires braking, heat generation can occur but only during a small part of the straight. In my job I am the simulation expert analysising the temperature behaviour of glass forming moulds. These moulds vary in temperature during production cycles. Molten glass is the heating element and ventilated air is the cooling element. These two thermal components are applied during different moments in the cycle. Hence forming surface temperature goes up when glass is in contact with moulds and goes down when glass is released. It is the main temperature driving factor. After several cycles this temperature pattern over the cycles stabilizes. The cooling component will mainly afffect by moving that patterned graph up or down when it is stabilized. The analogies between both systems is very high. Cycles would be laps. Glass contact would be tire to road friction and cooling air basically the same for both. Getting out of pits would be like a machine startup. As a proof of that the tire temperature pattern during a stint is qualitatively very similar to one of the mould. enviado mediante tapatalk
