Is rf2 too difficult? [lack of online players / leagues struggling]

No, it isn't.

It's a mix of quality content, structured servers, and not really having additional costs on top of the ones incurred on getting game and content.

 

I'll add my opinion here since it happens I just checked out your server yesterday and participated in a couple of races at Mid-Ohio with the FR3.5.
Regarding that couple of races, I had good fun. However, the level was way too high for me. Didn't have much practice with the FR3.5, so everyone was 6-7s faster than me.
After a good half hour I managed to get within 2s of the best guys, but still very slow.

I find there's a slight conflict of interests in what you are looking for.
On one hand, you want more people to attend your league servers.
On the other hand, you don't want beginners too much.

I speak for myself. I'm not a complete beginner, but given the extreme variation of rF2 cars and tracks, I know it takes me at least ten hours of practice with a given car/track before I'm confident with it, so during that first race yesterday I was just getting my feet wet and learning the feeling of the car/track.
Why I'm not joining your league? Because I'm in the SR4L league already, and I just started racing in the eGT1 league at SimHQ. Otherwise I probably would.

Another consideration. I really enjoy SR4L because the atmosphere is very relaxed and friendly. We battle with each other, but most people keep cool even when there's accidents which may always happen at any time. I've been taken out of a few races, and I took out people at some other races, and apologized as I felt the need to do. Nothing has changed, everyone accepts that this might happen, so it stays friendly.

Not all leagues are like that. That to me is what makes a league friendly. Being forgiving to beginners.
When I started racing with SR4L a year or so ago, I had never driven the 60s F1s seriously. They took me on board anyway.
Man, I had a lot of fun during this past year

Last race of the season is in 20-ish minutes. Need to run!!

Hope this is helpful in some way.

 

I think you misunderstood me Cosimo, there's a difference between a casual racer, or any racers trying whatever on their level, and pickup racers having no clue.
With pickup racers having no idea what they are doing its going to be messy most of the times. Nothing against them either, but it disturbs normal racing far too much.
That's why we don't allow for content install on our race nights, we just cannot trust people whom got the mod/track just by joining, its a risk for those whom practised and expecting a good battle.

I (we) don't care at all how good you are, how fast or how smart. we want you to have fun with us.
Typically we have aliens at the front, a whole bunch of midrunners and a few slower drivers. in all these years everyone of those have had fun no matter where they where in the pack. and that's our philosophy as well.
And if we do encounter driver whom have no clue, we take them aside, coach them, help them forward. our main target as a league is safety so everyone can enjoy racing without too much silly incidents. the rest is up to each driver on his own.

As for your pace yesterday, bare in mind this is our 4th FR35 event, we are getting the mod by now and able to push hard. And that's the thing with rf2, we cannot become fast over night, it takes allot of practise. and that is making the life of new rf2 users even harder.

 

"try keeping up with real competition in a league environment with peeps being much faster but still battling for a tenth or so between the top 6 and 10 more chasing you. Take the 'easiest' mod and it becomes difficult (and more fun of course)"

I was addressing where you were saying here...

"it seems rf2 has become too realistic" and "the harsh way rf2 punishes driver errors"

So is your grievance with rF2 or the level of competition?

"What makes sense to you might not make sense to others."

Agreed. And you are demonstrating that very well.

"If I was a casual driver just starting, I would go online right away because 'gaming' on my own or vs AI is just not going to cut it."

Which is exactly what console racers are for.

"What makes you think a new rf2 user will first spends months preparing themselves properly before they go online?"

I don't. And they won't, except for the ones who will last.

"You just described someone whom is experienced, knows what he is doing, knows his limitations, knows what the deal of simracing is."

No I didn't.

"I think you are too eager to push aside anyone not familiar with our thing. its the elitist simracer attitude I don't care much about tbh."

Not true.

"This is what we do, what other leagues do as well."

That's good!

"I don't think you've read anything in this thread did you?"

Nothing other than OP, nope.

"btw, please tell me how to only recruit true simracers."

You don't have to recruit true sim racers ; just those with potential. And you don't have to recruit ONLY those with potential. You just have to recognize those who don't and counsel them out.

 

You want to know why leagues are not as strong.

Because all alot of blokes do for 2 years here is talk it down. !@!

I never heard anything like it in 20 years. !@!

lol

Definitely more people whine about it then praise it, certainly something wrong there.

Me I was happy if they released build60 as the final ? lol

 

Dude, what happened to 'lopl' ... Lopl

 

Maybe the OP should do a one off event. Tin top, ISI content, 90 minute race with a week or two notice. I'd be willing to be he'd get a decent turnout.

 

IMHO Galaga nails it here, but this is common to all sims. There are semi-sims that are good for the casual racer, but the real sims are not. Some have casual-friendly content (like race 07 Minis) but those "casual" races are wreck-fests too.

rFactor2 has so many options, it is hard to make and admin a server- but it isn't because of anything wrong with the game, it's because it is a complicated process by design so that the sim can be so much and each race tailored. It may keep people from putting up servers... but from the look of the empty servers in the lobby, I don't think that is an issue TBH.

If people abandoned older titles, moved on to newer titles and consolidated- each new sim would benefit from the new players joining up. That is my point about each sim racer and league admin having a responsibility to the genre of game. The sim game is upside-down with more players on ancient games than newer ones. Devs make no money to continue to develop, servers go empty and the genre suffers over all. It's getting worse.

 

Neither.
I already complimented ISI with a good job because of this issue.
And fwiw, I want it to become much more realistic with rf3 and 4. there is no limit and nore should there be.

I was pointing out the level of rf2's realism is (probably) hurting those whom just got the sim and are experimenting and learning. rf2 is simply much more difficult then any other sim and it punishes a driver hard when overdriving or making small or big mistakes. for new drivers this can be a real problem.
its pretty simple Galaga, we start as noobs, become enthusiastic, then casual drivers and then in time experienced. between casual and experienced is where leagues usually pick them up.

And that gab seems to have disappeared. leaving communities with much less to hunt down.

 

Fair enough then Guy, and you are right of course, if those in older sims would come over.....

I reckon that part is more up to ISI though. There's quite a few things that are highly questionable in many areas (and as much are spot on) and a few of them seem to be some sort of roadblock. features need to get finished, bugs need to get fixed, some items need to be more simple and straight forward.
advertising
making sure peeps don't think it has a monthly fee (lol)
A clearer communication from ISI

If and when things fall into place then I would suspect admins and their drivers would port over more easily.
After all its the platform itself that is the base of all of the above. And I don't think its enough to claim that the sim is working well..when on track. there's too much going on on the side imho.

 

You missed those events hehe, but maybe we will do more in the future.

 

I totally agree. Those are the main points of why rF2 isn't very popular yet.

 

Meh, count the whiners on these forums Durgski, its probably about 20 or so, lets say 50. that's hardly a representation of the state the rf sim community is in.
As per usual, the negative voices are always the loudest, they shout the hardest, they use caps, they are getting noticed and set a tone.

But that doesn't mean there are much more users happy or happy enough. Heck, the fast majority of the rf2 community does not post here. they either lurk or ignore these forums.

But then again, I can post allot, and still get my racing done, its easy

 

If they give up so easily, this is not a product for them. You must understand that rFactor 2 is a product that out of 20 racing game fans, only 1 will have the mindset to really succeed in rF2. The rest might give it a try. 10-12 will call it stupid and give up after 10-15 minutes. 8-9 will try and try and be somewhat successful but nothing special. And then there will be this 1 that will sink into this and be sth special.

We... simracers that are real SIMracers are different species. We differ from typical Joe or John Doe. They may drive a bit in other sims that are much more forgiving and actually enjoy casual racing that doesn't ask him/her to do superhuman things to stay on track and race other people with ease. That's what he's/she's after.

However we are different, we want driving experience that is as close to the real thing as possible. Then we want racing experience. These two combined give us the whole picture. And if the real thing is as hard as what we have in the sim then I welcome it. I welcome challenge. I feel wonderful once I'm starting to get closer and closer to the edge. The greater the challenge the more fun out of it for me. It's not only about driving but also setup. Making setups is for me 80 % of the pleasure I get from using rF2. 15 % is watching how it performs, 5% is the actual racing. But if you asked me "could you live without driving and racing and just make setups then?" My answer would be: HELL NO! You need everything in it's place to fully enjoy the experience. Even if it's only 5% of the fun of using the sim. Without those 5 % I wouldn't feel happy. Not one bit.

rFactor always was and always will (hopefully) be aiming for this kind of people. Guys that want sth more than few laps with their friends in Mario Kart or NFS.

 

Here's my two cents: based on actual real life observation in the most accessible form of racing in the US (autocross/SCCA Solo II), what if I said there just aren't that many people who're *that* good behind the wheel?

You have two main groups:
1. Those who have "it".
2. Those who just don't. (By far the largest group).

Anybody falling into category #2 are going to be the first to simply pass off anything they can't just casually pick up and be as quick as those who have "it". Discuss...

 

I have some friends that wouldn't come to a real world karting session with me even though to them it was without charge,
not sure if it's because they find it to difficult -either way they are simply uninterested

 

Dude all I can say is the tone of your OP is quite misleading. You ask for feedback and what people think and you end up jumping my **** for answering you. Not sure if this is a troll or who pissed you off in this thread but I find it strange that you go from 'hey guys, i'm just thinking lately....not sure if I'm making any sense, etc.' to 'it's pretty simple, Moron!'

 

yes, lets do it that way, compare everyone with real drivers and then simracers either don't have 'it' or they totally suck and should be disregarded as a human beings and possibly deported.
I've seen allot of dedicated simmers not 'that' talented, or not having the time to develop an insane level of skill, even simmers with disabilities. yet they fill the leagues, attend the races, donate money and keep things going just as anyone else year after year. so they are slow, or not consistent, or just frigging old and cannot keep up like they used to. they are most definitely simracers.

Seriously, we should stop trying to compare ourselves to real life. or at least get our heads out of our arses in thinking we are some kind of godsend. its ridiculous.

anyone else?

 

I'm happy with any feedback but in my opinion yours lacked a realistic tone and was more aimed at your own personal views in which you made it clear that if you did not have a problem then no1 should.
it was kinda asking for it, I apologize for being so upfront.

But anyways, we can disagree on things can we not?

 

its the most simulated sim on the market cant handle it go back to consoles or use the aids to make it easier. for me no aids unless race series use them and must be cockpit view. just left a league I raced at looking for another that races AUSSIE v8's no aids and cockpit view if you know of any pls let me know. im in the AUSSIE and would like local league so no probs with lag, but will race any where if I have too.